Winnipeg Construction IX

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by dmacc

We aren't having them run through our neighbourhoods to get where they are going. Route 90 has always been the dividing line between Tuxedo and River Heights. Almost all the homes being expropriated are vacant. No Neighbourhood is being dismantled for this project.

Also, Winnipeg's Transport industry is a massive part of this City and Provinces economy. Their requirements and opinions are as valuable as yours and an improved Route 90 will likely bring in a better ROI then opening P&M,

to be fair, was this not the argument behind upgrading the south perimeter and having CCW as a main thoroughfare for trucks?

Considering it is a big industry for the whole province, that just gives more credence for enhancing the perimeter as a trucking route, as opposed to these urban routes which as the plans currently stand for route 90, will still have the same flaws and make them even worse with respect to start-stop traffic and congestion

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by CoryB

From my office I can see Portage and Main. When I am walking on street level I am commonly the only pedestrian on a whole block or more. Not sure where you are finding all these "pedestrians" but they definitely are not around Portage and Main. Opening Portage and Main isn't going to change people from non-pedestrians into pedestrians crossing Portage and Main frequently and in high volumes.

Well duh, the barricades. I used to go to a Mr. Submarine, as it was called back then, all the time in 1979/1980 right on that corner. Business will return. You'll see.

Additional traffic delays from opening Portage and Main leading to more businesses relocating their offices to the suburbs. Just look at the insurance office that moved their headquarters to Polo Park or all the offices in the Kennaston business park as examples of what will increasingly happen if travelling to/from downtown is made more difficult. Sure traffic will balance out and "people will adjust" over time but that is likely because they no longer come downtown ever, except for the off Jets games.

No. Wait and see. You will be wrong.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by CoryB

From my office I can see Portage and Main. When I am walking on street level I am commonly the only pedestrian on a whole block or more. Not sure where you are finding all these "pedestrians" but they definitely are not around Portage and Main. Opening Portage and Main isn't going to change people from non-pedestrians into pedestrians crossing Portage and Main frequently and in high volumes.

Additional traffic delays from opening Portage and Main leading to more businesses relocating their offices to the suburbs. Just look at the insurance office that moved their headquarters to Polo Park or all the offices in the Kennaston business park as examples of what will increasingly happen if travelling to/from downtown is made more difficult. Sure traffic will balance out and "people will adjust" over time but that is likely because they no longer come downtown ever, except for the off Jets games.

I don't work in the downtown office scene so I can't comment on the first point

Regarding the second point though, estimates are that it would add maybe 1-2 mins tops to commutes. That is negligible. If it added an hour, ok maybe there's an argument for that. I believe those estimates are made by simply adding typical pedestrian crossing times to the current light signals and integrating them. Some of those pedestrians will be crossing with the traffic too, so its not like all traffic will stop and make way. One could also argue that it might save a few seconds to cross above ground than it would to go the long way underground. Ultimately, I expect it to be negligible - and the benefits of having a connected, vibrant downtown are more tantalizing.

I understand that most of these people who will lament the purported traffic delays have probably never known anything outside of Winnipeg though, as Winnipeg doesn't have a "real" rush hour downtown, with the only spots that resemble this are legitimate bottle necks outside downtown (i.e. like route 90, or places where the lanes go from the 3-4ish lanes from the downtown core to 1-2 lanes) but downtown itself doesn't have significant rush hour traffic to begin with.

We must also recall why the barriers exist in the first place; the barriers were not put up to make traffic more efficient. They were put up to increase foot traffic underground for the then-new retail developments

[buzzg]

^Yes, thank you. In addition, the traffic study pointed out that opening would have ZERO affect on Main Street through traffic (which accounts for over 50% of all traffic there), and would only effect turning traffic, although negligibly as mentioned. Plus, it seems like regardless, the west crossing will remain closed, which is the next biggest traffic movement.

[buzzg]

Anyone know if 433 Main (passport office) is planning a major exterior Reno?

They spent the last couple months redoing the main entrance, and are now redoing Generation Green’s entrance. They removed all the bronze palling from the main floor and replaced it with Tyndall stone. Looks good, but also looks out of place since the rest of the main floor is exposed pebble concrete, and tower is bronze panels. Mayen the removal of the bronze panel from the podium is a sign they’re going to do the same to the tower?

[esquire]

^ Not sure about the answer to your question, but I'll use this opportunity to jump in and say that Generation Green could use a better sign for its restaurant. I popped into the convenience store which is entered through the 423 Main lobby, and I was surprised to see a restaurant in there.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

you would like to know what someone who drives for a living thinks about building a city that prioritizes driving? I'll hazard a guess.

Also, semi-truck drivers should be banned from downtown streets.

carefull what about mts center or business's that use these things to service them downtown

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

carefull what about mts center or business's that use these things to service them downtown

There are very few businesses (downtown) that get deliveries from semis. In fact the arena might be just about the only one. Most retail outlets will get deliveries from a distribution centre or warehouse via a smaller delivery truck/van.

[1ajs]

actualy...

walker theater
giant tiger
the bay
portage place
trizak complex scott bathgate
the forks
richlu
various hiden buisnes downtown u dont know exist
the province
the wcc
hydro
td building

[buzzg]

Most of those are not getting deliveries direct from semis.

[1ajs]

u would be surprized

[ediger]

Originally Posted by CoryB

From my office I can see Portage and Main. When I am walking on street level I am commonly the only pedestrian on a whole block or more. Not sure where you are finding all these "pedestrians" but they definitely are not around Portage and Main. Opening Portage and Main isn't going to change people from non-pedestrians into pedestrians crossing Portage and Main frequently and in high volumes.

They are virtually everywhere except Portage and Main and I think the reasons for that have been discussed to death. I think I'm going to trust my own experience WALKING down Portage over your opinion you've formed looking out your window.

[Spocket]

I've never understood the "open P&M" argument. Nobody is going from one point to another via that intersection. The people who would otherwise do so are business people getting lunch in Wpg Square. No need to stay above ground.

There's no foot traffic there. There are people waiting for buses and people under the whole thing for their own reasons. I mean, if it's such a big deal to people then fine, go ahead. I just don't see the need and never have.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by CoryB

From my office I can see Portage and Main. When I am walking on street level I am commonly the only pedestrian on a whole block or more. Not sure where you are finding all these "pedestrians" but they definitely are not around Portage and Main.

Do you know why you don't see pedestrians within a block of Portage and Main? BECAUSE IT IS CLOSED TO PEDESTRIANS!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

Do you know why you don't see pedestrians within a block of Portage and Main? BECAUSE IT IS CLOSED TO PEDESTRIANS!

but there's no pedestrians there

why you want to open portage and main when there's never anyone walking around there

there are no people

i have no idea where they are

no people

help police

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by windypeg

Shouldn't we ask traffic engineers about that then instead of cab drivers?

Sure, but then we shouldn't be asking a pedestrian their opinion as well. The only person with a valid opinion should be traffic engineers, City and urban Planners and some sort of urban planning economist. We should yield our opinion to experts.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by trueviking

again. I do not buy for one second that the trucking industry, that moves goods thousands of kilometers once it leaves the city will grow at all by saving a few minutes at rush hour passing through the city. You know full well, the argument for spending that half billion dollars has nothing to do with your belief that trucking will grow...total red herring.

I think that's where you fail as an economist and can't see the full scope and benefits of the free flow of goods and services. The trans Canadian Rail system and Highways paved the way for massive economic growth that would never have happened if we said, Canoe and horse and buggy are doing the job just fine. When you improve the movement of goods and services the economy increase. It doesn't have to be just the movement of goods in and out of the city but the movement of goods within the city.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Making it easier for trucks to get through the middle of the city does precisely zero for the local economy. The only trucks that would boost our economy are ones that stop in Winnipeg to load/unload a shipment – most of those are going to the industrial areas... no semi is stopping to drop off stuff at Dollarama on Portage.

This argument should be about improving the conditions on the perimeter so that trucks that are passing through use that route as opposed to going through the city. Then Highway 1's route could be moved to there, so that the province isn't "forced" to use Broadway, St. Anne's, and another inappropriate streets as main routes.

What about the semis that were used for the construction of TNS? The delivery of product to the construction site was needed and will be needed for other projects as well. Maybe for the cities new tallest.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by dmacc

What about the semis that were used for the construction of TNS? The delivery of product to the construction site was needed and will be needed for other projects as well. Maybe for the cities new tallest.

Trucks actually making pickups or deliveries downtown aren't the issue here.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

to be fair, was this not the argument behind upgrading the south perimeter and having CCW as a main thoroughfare for trucks?

Considering it is a big industry for the whole province, that just gives more credence for enhancing the perimeter as a trucking route, as opposed to these urban routes which as the plans currently stand for route 90, will still have the same flaws and make them even worse with respect to start-stop traffic and congestion

I do believe the Perimeter is needed for the transports of goods in and out of the city but there is still the transport of goods and services within the city. The refinement of products often requires the shipment of good to and from somewhere before it is ready to be transported out.

Take Canada Goose, they import good such as feathers, pelts, fabric which all enters the city. Those goods must then be delivered to Canada Goose which then refine the goods into winter wear at which point they need to be transported out of the city. There can be many points of which these goods go through before getting to Canada goose and many points before leaving the city.