Portage and Main re-opening 2016

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Ok, you are good at deflecting away from the main issues that opponents of the CMHR had. And it looks like you spent considerable time doing so. Well done.

Getting back on topic, what is the actual status in regards to the City of Winnipeg opening Portage and Main? 2016 has come and gone, with the intersection still closed off to pedestrians.

That the response you go with? really? Ask me to prove my point and then call it deflecting? Wow you're as embarrassing as your points of view eh. I'm embarrassed for you...

And don't worry about me fam, as I said, it didn't take me long AT ALL to find that information - a very VERY quick scan for your name is all I needed to do in my search for pathetic people voicing laughable opinions.

It's nice to see how far you've come since then tho! Your way of having a discussion is more Fox news like now

Ask someone to prove their point
*they prove their point*
claim that their efforts were worthless and they're wasting time - rapidly change topic away from their embarrassment.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by Ando

He just gave you all the proof, including your own biases, and you're saying he is deflecting? I think you're being elitist.

That's just the kinda guy he is - and the kind of people that represent the anti-development/anti-Winnipeg movement.

The moment hes embarrassed he tries to blame and change the topic. It's so much easier to cut and run than actually try to explain himself eh?

- Claims I'm revising history by saying people discussed alternative uses to the museum once it "fails"

* I show HIM doing that very thing - because hes got a touch of the Dementia and/or Alzheimer's and forgets things he says.

- Claims I'm deflecting and tries to change the subject himself

I'm embarrassed for him... hes embarrassing himself at this point.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Can't decide if someone is delusional or just plain dumb in thinking opening P&M will somehow regenerate downtown. The vocal majority who support the opening in this forum are the minority when it comes to public opinion on re-opening P&M to ped. traffic.

How many studies did the city commision that all told them "opening" was a bad idea and made no sense?

I'm still waiting for the CMHR to fail and close. I'm still waiting for Bell MTS Place to not spark any other developments around it. Shal I add "still waiting for P&M to be a bad idea" to the list? or perhaps "still waiting for a recent city commissioned study saying it made no sense"?

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

I'm still waiting for the CMHR to fail and close. I'm still waiting for Bell MTS Place to not spark any other developments around it. Shal I add "still waiting for P&M to be a bad idea" to the list? or perhaps "still waiting for a recent city commissioned study saying it made no sense"?

You forgot how wasteful and ugly Esplanade Riel is...

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

How many studies did the city commision that all told them "opening" was a bad idea and made no sense?

ummm....zero?

[scryer]

Pretty please?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

I'm still waiting for the CMHR to fail and close. I'm still waiting for Bell MTS Place to not spark any other developments around it. Shal I add "still waiting for P&M to be a bad idea" to the list? or perhaps "still waiting for a recent city commissioned study saying it made no sense"?

Don't get how I'm getting lumped in with the "save Eatons" crowd or no to Bell MTS or down with Esplanade Riel! Please explain how the Bell MTS Centre which is a great success is anything remotely related to opening P&M in rejuvenating Winnipeg's downtown....

Sure the public money could have been better spent than on a one time visit museum but I'm veering off topic....

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

That's just the kinda guy he is - and the kind of people that represent the anti-development/anti-Winnipeg movement.

You know for a fact, that I am the President of the Anti-Development/Anti-Winnipeg Movement. Address me as such next time.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Don't get how I'm getting lumped in with the "save Eatons" crowd or no to Bell MTS or down with Esplanade Riel! Please explain how the Bell MTS Centre which is a great success is anything remotely related to opening P&M in rejuvenating Winnipeg's downtown....

Sure the public money could have been better spent than on a one time visit museum but I'm veering off topic....

The common denominator is an inability to cope with change and a compulsion to defend the status quo at all costs.

[dennis]

Opening portage and main to pedestrian will not be the be all and end all to rejuvenating downtown. Like the arena or the other developments we are seeing it will be another small piece to the larger puzzle. I just don’t see a reason as to keeping it closed.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by dennis

Opening portage and main to pedestrian will not be the be all and end all to rejuvenating downtown. Like the arena or the other developments we are seeing it will be another small piece to the larger puzzle. I just don’t see a reason as to keeping it closed.

I'm not entirely convinced reopening it will do anything other than potentially hurt the businesses in Winnipeg square during the summer months. With that being said, having people walking around isn't necessarily a bad thing- but I would like to see a study on traffic patterns and whether it actually affects traffic if they do reopen it. If they were to turn it into a tourism attraction, like a bridge/overpass where you could walk over the intersection, I would be much more in favour of that. But I agree- this isn't going to do a thing for downtown revitalization whatsoever. It will contribute very little if anything at all.

[rkspec]

I just cant see if i am a regular at booster juice for example, i will suddenly stop going down to booster juice cause P&M is now opened lol

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Jammon

I'm not entirely convinced reopening it will do anything other than potentially hurt the businesses in Winnipeg square during the summer months. With that being said, having people walking around isn't necessarily a bad thing- but I would like to see a study on traffic patterns and whether it actually affects traffic if they do reopen it. If they were to turn it into a tourism attraction, like a bridge/overpass where you could walk over the intersection, I would be much more in favour of that. But I agree- this isn't going to do a thing for downtown revitalization whatsoever. It will contribute very little if anything at all.

The traffic study has been posted here numerous times. It pointed out there would be zero impact on the two busiest routes through the intersection (accounting for over 50% of traffic) – through traffic on NB and SB Main. Said there would be impact on turning traffic, which makes up the smallest percentage of cars, and it would be minimal.

Originally Posted by rkspec

I just cant see if i am a regular at booster juice for example, i will suddenly stop going down to booster juice cause P&M is now opened lol

Exactly. And if 360/201/Richardson orient more toward the intersection (as it sounds is planned) it could even increase traffic to stores underground as more people will walk by and maybe go in. It's staggering the amount of people I talk to that have no idea how to get underground, where it all connects, how to get anywhere, what's down there, etc. Think of everything under Richardson – there's no way you'd have a clue if you didn't go there much. The entrances to WS and the entire underground/skywalk system don't draw anyone down that wasn't already going there. Clean them up, make them attractive, add signage – more people will go.

I have clients that come to my office in the Exchange all the time and many have said they didn't even know how close we were to accessing the Walkway system (@ Richardson).

I think Pacific Centre in Vancouver is an amazing example of what our Walkway system could and should be. The entrances to the mall/concourse are about the size of the WS ones on Portage and Fort, but they dress up the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 out of them and make it obvious there's a much bigger "mall" behind and under the street-level retail. By appearances, you'd never know there was a full mall underground. Here it's like we're afraid to show people what lies beneath.

I mean look at this Winnipeg Square entrance for god sakes. Why would anyone who doesn't routinely go to WS for a specific purpose ever decide to take a walk through here. Now compare it to this type of entrance at PC which would be great at 201, or this one which should be a model for WS – the doors open directly to an escalator down. Pacific Centre connects dozens of buildings underground just like Winnipeg Square and the underground. It's not rocket science.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by dennis

Opening portage and main to pedestrian will not be the be all and end all to rejuvenating downtown. Like the arena or the other developments we are seeing it will be another small piece to the larger puzzle. I just don’t see a reason as to keeping it closed.

No one thinks that it will be some magic bullet solution for downtown revitalization. It's just a straw man being used by those against it. It will improve connectivity between the Forks, the Exchange and the SHED and that may have some development benefits but at the end of the day it's just silly that people can't walk from point A to point B via the most logical, direct route and there are no real arguments against it. I've yet to see any of those against opening present actual facts or evidence showing why it shouldn't be opened. They just keep throwing out a bunch of speculation and get all hysterical and then call you names and insult you if you disagree.

[buzzg]

^Exactly. So many downtown "megaprojects" or just prominent ones have had people touting they'd "save" downtown alone or make an immediate, massive impact – we know it's not the case. They're (including P&M) all part of the larger puzzle to make downtown, the Exchange, and The Forks better – and better connected. This is about downtown, not about traffic through it (which the impact is minimal anyway).

If all we care about it traffic flow and trucks and vehicles getting through the city, lets just turn Corydon into a freeway so it easily connects to Roblin and the perimeter. Who cares about the people who live, work, and visit the vibrant areas of Corydon? While we're at it – Stafford is a great candidate as well to blow up – we can connect Pembina to Academy to get to the airport at light speed!

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Jammon

I'm not entirely convinced reopening it will do anything other than potentially hurt the businesses in Winnipeg square during the summer months. With that being said, having people walking around isn't necessarily a bad thing- but I would like to see a study on traffic patterns and whether it actually affects traffic if they do reopen it. If they were to turn it into a tourism attraction, like a bridge/overpass where you could walk over the intersection, I would be much more in favour of that. But I agree- this isn't going to do a thing for downtown revitalization whatsoever. It will contribute very little if anything at all.

Wow, this shocking coming from you. All of the businesses on each corner are in favour of it so I assume they have done the numbers.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Haha gotcha!

I was against this because I felt it would be bad for the city.

Got any other examples to explain your obsession with me?

Wow, if i didn't know better, sometimes I think I'm trying to have an intelligent conversation with a five-year old.

[bomberjet]

So back to why are we still talking about people crossing the street?

[esquire]

^ Because apparently it is a controversial issue in some quarters?

[dennis]

Another thing I don’t understand is why people are so hot over the issue of opening up the intersection. It’s like Assiniboine park having a population explosion of squirrels and the whole city going nuts over the news.