Portage and Main re-opening 2016

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Can't decide if trolling or serious...

Can't decide if someone is delusional or just plain dumb in thinking opening P&M will somehow regenerate downtown. The vocal majority who support the opening in this forum are the minority when it comes to public opinion on re-opening P&M to ped. traffic.

How many studies did the city commision that all told them "opening" was a bad idea and made no sense?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Can't decide if someone is delusional or just plain dumb in thinking opening P&M will somehow regenerate downtown. The vocal majority who support the opening in this forum are the minority when it comes to public opinion on re-opening P&M to ped. traffic.

How many studies did the city commision that all told them "opening" was a bad idea and made no sense?

So you're suggesting we do nothing, and expect fairies to come and sprinkle pixy dust on downtown and magically solve all its problems? Or would you rather let it die as a neighbourhood and reatreat safely to the exurbs and comfortable little business parks?

The profound irony of those opposed to opening P&M is that they all don't seem to have any interest in downtown as a neighbourhood other than to be able to drive through it as fast as possible.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

So you're suggesting we do nothing, and expect fairies to come and sprinkle pixy dust on downtown and magically solve all its problems? Or would you rather let it die as a neighbourhood and reatreat safely to the exurbs and comfortable little business parks?

The profound irony of those opposed to opening P&M is that they all don't seem to have any interest in downtown as a neighbourhood other than to be able to drive through it as fast as possible.

Once again, how opening P&M does anything to help revitalize downtown is negligible at best and in fact despite what many in here believe may actually turn into a negative, stop and think about that for awhile!

No one is suggesting we do nothing, there have been countless initiatives to help revitalize downtown, many successful some not. Look at cities with thriving downtowns and you don't get nearly as many of the socio-economic problems that downtown Winnipeg suffers from. I get that you need to increase mass and opportunities to get downtown to thrive but opening P&M isn't part of the solution!

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Ando

He is a longtime troll from a way back. He hates everything. Closely associated with Riverman.

I never knew the word "troll" meant anyone with a difference of opinion than your own.

Learn something new everyday I guess...

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Once again, how opening P&M does anything to help revitalize downtown is negligible at best and in fact despite what many in here believe may actually turn into a negative, stop and think about that for awhile!

No one is suggesting we do nothing, there have been countless initiatives to help revitalize downtown, many successful some not. Look at cities with thriving downtowns and you don't get nearly as many of the socio-economic problems that downtown Winnipeg suffers from. I get that you need to increase mass and opportunities to get downtown to thrive but opening P&M isn't part of the solution!

http://vtpi.org/walkability.pdf

https://www.mayorsinnovation.org/images/uploads/pdf/14_-_brookings.pdf

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2016/06/in-the-us-walkability-is-a-premium-good/487319/

There is a lot of evidence out there that walkability improves the economic fortunes of a place. Ironically the "car is King" approach that we've been using in downtown Winnipeg for decades is a contributor to the social malaise that you've pointed out. If you cater only to people who want to drive in, park, then drive straight back out to the suburbs at the end of the day, the result is you have no people on the street, no life in the area after 6pm, and decay sets in. Which is exactly what has transpired in downtown Winnipeg over the past few decades. So you are bizarrely arguing that to fix downtown we need more of what killed downtown in the first place. Truly strange.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by windypeg

http://vtpi.org/walkability.pdf

https://www.mayorsinnovation.org/images/uploads/pdf/14_-_brookings.pdf

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2016/06/in-the-us-walkability-is-a-premium-good/487319/

There is a lot of evidence out there that walkability improves the economic fortunes of a place. Ironically the "car is King" approach that we've been using in downtown Winnipeg for decades is a contributor to the social malaise that you've pointed out. If you cater only to people who want to drive in, park, then drive straight back out to the suburbs at the end of the day, the result is you have no people on the street, no life in the area after 6pm, and decay sets in. Which is exactly what has transpired in downtown Winnipeg over the past few decades. So you are bizarrely arguing that to fix downtown we need more of what killed downtown in the first place. Truly strange.

Downtown Winnipeg was a lot cleaner and safer twenty years ago when P&M was still closed, until you can clear up the vagrant/homeless/drug dealing problem no one will want to spend any time there after 5:00 PM. I've walked around downtowns at night in countless cities and none are as bad as Winnipeg at night!

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Riverman

We have never met.

Besides, I am far more closely associated with you, seeing that you post my name far more than anyone else.

I noticed that too. Maybe he has a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 obsession for you (not that there is anything wrong with that).

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Downtown Winnipeg was a lot cleaner and safer twenty years ago

"downtown winnipeg was nicer in 1998 than 2018" is a brave position to take

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by windypeg

http://vtpi.org/walkability.pdf

https://www.mayorsinnovation.org/images/uploads/pdf/14_-_brookings.pdf

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2016/06/in-the-us-walkability-is-a-premium-good/487319/

There is a lot of evidence out there that walkability improves the economic fortunes of a place. Ironically the "car is King" approach that we've been using in downtown Winnipeg for decades is a contributor to the social malaise that you've pointed out. If you cater only to people who want to drive in, park, then drive straight back out to the suburbs at the end of the day, the result is you have no people on the street, no life in the area after 6pm, and decay sets in. Which is exactly what has transpired in downtown Winnipeg over the past few decades. So you are bizarrely arguing that to fix downtown we need more of what killed downtown in the first place. Truly strange.

Well said. Good to see a post that is well thought out and yet realistic. Sad that several other pro-opening P & M posters think this will be some kind of catalyst for the city to solve every issue that had plagued the downtown for the past 50 years. I have no idea if opening the intersection will encourage citizens to frequent the area but I am open to any idea to improve the core area.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

"downtown winnipeg was nicer in 1998 than 2018" is a brave position to take

Maybe it was in 1978. I only started frequenting the downtown area around high school (1992 and beyond). I found it improving from the late 90s. Not much but slowly the area will come alive if money and time are invested in the right projects (RRC and UW campus expansions, TNS, Bell MRS Place etc).

[esquire]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

"downtown winnipeg was nicer in 1998 than 2018" is a brave position to take

I don't agree personally, but it's not an entirely unreasonable position to take.

In 1998 you didn't have the various infrastructure improvements that have been realized in recent years... there was no MTS Centre, no CMHR, no Millennium Library, no bike lanes, no modern buildings (there was almost nothing built in the 90s), etc.

But on the other hand the socioeconomic problems weren't as front and centre. There wasn't as much stark poverty. Downtown retail still existed... Eaton's was around, the downtown Bay was the best location in town for that chain, Portage Place was just a normal place to go shopping - and you actually could do a lot of it back then.

While some things have improved since then, not everything has.

But all that aside, opening P&M is a no-brainer. Everyone forgets the main reason it was closed off was as a concession to the property owners who built the shopping concourses around there. If they're willing to let go of that, then there is no reason for the City not to get on board with opening up the intersection. The P&M circus is 40 years old, run down, and in need of serious repairs no matter what, so the incremental cost is trivial anyway.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Downtown Winnipeg was a lot cleaner and safer twenty years ago when P&M was still closed, until you can clear up the vagrant/homeless/drug dealing problem no one will want to spend any time there after 5:00 PM. I've walked around downtowns at night in countless cities and none are as bad as Winnipeg at night!

The best solution to vagrancy and drug dealing is to have more eyes on the street. It's not nearly as effective from within a vehicle travelling at 40 plus km/hr. I'm sorry but, it's absolutely absurd to support a vehicle only intersection at one of the most venerable addresses in the city. This isn't me anti car either. It's completely imbalanced towards the car right now. That's just not a very good starting off point to building a vibrant downtown. Why would anyone pay more for less space to still drive everywhere or have to walk through tunnels to get places?

[bomberjet]

We're still talking about people crossing the street?

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Downtown Winnipeg was a lot cleaner and safer twenty years ago when P&M was still closed, until you can clear up the vagrant/homeless/drug dealing problem no one will want to spend any time there after 5:00 PM. I've walked around downtowns at night in countless cities and none are as bad as Winnipeg at night!

You walked!? Why would anyone visiting a city want to walk around it? And how on earth did you do that without being mowed down by traffic? Surely these cities must have been plagued by monstrous traffic problems, allowing people to just walk around like that. They sound like terrible places, hopefully they learn to close down their intersections, get everyone in cars and put an end to this silly walking. Thankfully we've got more sense than that in Winnipeg, right?

[Tacheguy]

Downtown Vancouver can be plenty scary to walk around at night. Of course rrskyler wouldn't notice that because many of the drugged out zombies are non-aboriginal.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I noticed that too. Maybe he has a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 obsession for you (not that there is anything wrong with that).

So now you are the one doing the deflecting? Once your true motives were exposed by a quick review of your past posts, that's probably your best strategy, although pretty desperate.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I never knew the word "troll" meant anyone with a difference of opinion than your own.

Learn something new everyday I guess...

News flash. You're missing the point. He's against anything positive for the city, and constantly posts only negative comments. Nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with me. But you already know that.

[Kris22]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

We're still talking about people crossing the street?

this x100

I can't believe this is still a thing. Its an intersection with sidewalks on all sides, yet it is impossible to cross. WHAT?!

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

This is RARE footage of downtown Winnipeg before they closed off Portage and Main - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOaBNkVDjeg

Hilarious. Thanks for sharing.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by Ando

News flash. You're missing the point. He's against anything positive for the city, and constantly posts only negative comments. Nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with me. But you already know that.

Haha gotcha!

I was against this because I felt it would be bad for the city.

Got any other examples to explain your obsession with me?