Regina Construction III

[one_brick_at_a_time]

Noticed Brewed Awakening has a location on Dewdney Avenue now in the Warehouse district. They seem to be doing very well .

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by one_brick_at_a_time

Noticed Brewed Awakening has a location on Dewdney Avenue now in the Warehouse district. They seem to be doing very well .

Loved going to their places when I lived in Regina.

[StealthGirl]

The city administration and council are in love with getting reports but have zero followthrough. They are so afraid to say no, that no investor/builder/business will negotiate anything, that they say yes to everything it seems. I don't know how that will change. We have three newer people on council this term, but the dinosaurs dig in their heels. It's funny to follow council meetings on twitter bc the reporters refer to them as the trifecta and so often the trifecta votes one way and the dinosaurs the other so nothing changes. I hope they don't get frustrated and quit bc they can't do anything.

Originally Posted by one_brick_at_a_time

Noticed Brewed Awakening has a location on Dewdney Avenue now in the Warehouse district. They seem to be doing very well .

That's been there a couple of years now, I think. They've got the original on Prince of Wales, Hill Avenue, Dewdney, Harbour Landing (behind Lowe's on the end of the hotel), on campus at UofR and the bakery on Gordon.

[cityboy]

That's been there a couple of years now, I think. They've got the original on Prince of Wales, Hill Avenue, Dewdney, Harbour Landing (behind Lowe's on the end of the hotel), on campus at UofR and the bakery on Gordon.

Don't forget 11th Ave.!

[aberrant]

Originally Posted by one_brick_at_a_time

Noticed Brewed Awakening has a location on Dewdney Avenue now in the Warehouse district. They seem to be doing very well .

All the cool kids refer to this location as Brewdney.

[J-Walker]

Originally Posted by UPP

The stadium cost $278,000,000, the city took on $60,000,000 of that total, not $350,000,000. The fact that you inflated the total by nearly 600% implies that the actual total isn't out of line.

Your arguments are also hypocritical. You complain about the price and yet also complain that the project was done cheaply. Would you rather they spent $600,000,000 on the stadium so that we could have finer finishes and more luxurious boxes? I think most people who actually use the facility including the boxes, loges, etc are pleased with the balance that was struck between a relatively affordable stadium with decent amenities.

So neither of those numbers is correct. The City did a horrible job of explaining the cost-share burden (probably on purpose: fuzzy math = less complaints), but it breaks down to something close to this.

Total Stadium Cost: 278.2 million

Province: 80 million grant
Riders: 25 million (but actually not really from them because the majority came from corporate sponsors and naming rights)
City of Regina: 173 million (-100 million loan to be repaid)

100 million of the 173 million City contribution is to be repaid back to the City as a facility fee over the next 30 years or so. However, since the City had to borrow that money in the first place, the interest expense the city will incur during this time on that money is an additional 76 million. So basically, the City is in to the stadium construction for just shy of 150 million when the bill are finally all paid off (173-100+76). Add to that the roughly 135 million in future maintenance costs, and the total price tag to the Regina taxpayer over the next 30 years is about 285 million.

I think I got that right, hopefully. Either way, it looks and functions like a 300 million dollar stadium. So, we got what we paid for I guess. No better no worse. I'm on the side of the complainers though, I think a lot more of the stadium could have been funded through facility fees and less of our tax dollars. Cause remember, that 80 million dollar grant from the province towards the stadium, that's also our tax dollars that is currently accumulating interest while we run a deficit.

[UPP]

Originally Posted by J-Walker

So neither of those numbers is correct. The City did a horrible job of explaining the cost-share burden (probably on purpose: fuzzy math = less complaints), but it breaks down to something close to this.

Total Stadium Cost: 278.2 million

Province: 80 million grant
Riders: 25 million (but actually not really from them because the majority came from corporate sponsors and naming rights)
City of Regina: 173 million (-100 million loan to be repaid)

100 million of the 173 million City contribution is to be repaid back to the City as a facility fee over the next 30 years or so. However, since the City had to borrow that money in the first place, the interest expense the city will incur during this time on that money is an additional 76 million. So basically, the City is in to the stadium construction for just shy of 150 million when the bill are finally all paid off (173-100+76). Add to that the roughly 135 million in future maintenance costs, and the total price tag to the Regina taxpayer over the next 30 years is about 285 million.

I think I got that right, hopefully. Either way, it looks and functions like a 300 million dollar stadium. So, we got what we paid for I guess. No better no worse. I'm on the side of the complainers though, I think a lot more of the stadium could have been funded through facility fees and less of our tax dollars. Cause remember, that 80 million dollar grant from the province towards the stadium, that's also our tax dollars that is currently accumulating interest while we run a deficit.

That number is unjustifiable and you know it. Your citing of the $100 million assumes that absolutely none of it will be repaid which is simply not true.

Including maintenance costs is also a red herring. By stating that figure, you assume there would be no maintenance costs for the old stadium. Of course, logic tells us that older facilities cost more to maintain and up keep than newer ones. In fact, lighting the old stadium was wildly more expensive than lighting the current one. Keeping that old relic operational was only going to cost more and more all the time.

[Stormer]

Does the interest on the $100 million being repaid by users (virtually all Rider fans) not also cover the interest on that money? Also you cannot fully count the interest payments and the principal as a cost. You must take the present value taking into account 30 years of inflation. That is, the City will be paying back the principal with future, less valuable (due to inflation) dollars.

[HomeInMyShoes]

^True, but while servicing that debt, what does that interest prevent them from doing?

It's not a simple equation and what that $100 million is actually costing the city has not been adequately addressed by the city. What most of us do know is that we are paying more municipal taxes for this. Is everyone using the faciltiy? No. So some will be angry that they pay for something they will never use. This is where council needs to do a good job explaining benefits to the community as a whole and why one would fund it. I don't think they did a great job at this and I also feel that the city should not have funded as much as they did.

Everyone has the right to feel whatever they want with respect to the funding. That includes griping about it from time to time. Especially around tax assessment time.

[city rep]

New to writing on the forum, long time follower. Really only made a user now as this seems to be getting out of control.
I noticed lots of those supporting the stadium on here have rider pics as a profile so them always defending it as a great decision is no doubt biased.

While I do not agree with how the cost of the stadium is being paid for at all, I do think what we got for our price was no doubt well spent.

Also I feel this should all have been done in the stadium thread

[J-Walker]

Originally Posted by UPP

That number is unjustifiable and you know it. Your citing of the $100 million assumes that absolutely none of it will be repaid which is simply not true.

Including maintenance costs is also a red herring. By stating that figure, you assume there would be no maintenance costs for the old stadium. Of course, logic tells us that older facilities cost more to maintain and up keep than newer ones. In fact, lighting the old stadium was wildly more expensive than lighting the current one. Keeping that old relic operational was only going to cost more and more all the time.

Unjustifiable? Simply not true and I know it?

Okay..... so I rarely take offense to a good counter argument, in fact, I enjoy it. But don't accuse me of being dishonest because the numbers confuse you.

Here what I do know, and I do assume repayment of the 100 million principle.

The 100 million dollar loan will cost the City 176 million dollars once they fully repay the province (based on their own repayment schedule). The facility fee only covers repayment of the 100 million dollar principle. This leaves the City with 76 million in interest expense from that loan to be borne by the taxpayer. So add the interest expense to the 73.2 million portion of City's upfront costs and you end up with 149.2 million. That's it. Its that simple.

As far as not taking into account maintenance cost, whatever, don't then. I kept them separate for a reason and later added them into the total cost. After double checking the City's numbers, I actually underestimated the maintenance cost by 50 million in my prior estimate. But you can't say we need to take into account the future maintenance costs of the old stadium in justifying the new stadium, and then say the future maintenance costs of the new stadium are a red herring. That's not how public finance works. Anyways, double check my numbers if you want, here is the City's official financing numbers :

http://regina.siretechnologies.com/sirep...qbabyunz2iudip/411720607201809323798.PDF

And yeah, this should probably be in the stadium thread, so any additional comments I'll leave there.

[jigglysquishy]

We got three major infrastructure projects out of the last boom. The water treatment plant was necessary, though a P3 was the wrong choice. The stadium was unnecessary, but politically inevitable. The bypass was a travesty and everyone who supports it should hang their head in shame.

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Wait, wait, wait. Where's the fourth horseman of the apocalypse, the GTH?

[jigglysquishy]

It's a $2 billion subsidy to sprawl. Unjustifiable and disgusting.

The GTH is wrapped up with the bypass. The bypass wouldn't even have been a proposal if not for the GTH.

[Draftsman]

I wish they would have put that $2 billion into a new hospital in Regina instead of a bypass we didn't really need.

[pappcam]

Originally Posted by Draftsman

I wish they would have put that $2 billion into a new hospital in Regina instead of a bypass we didn't really need.

Something was needed for cleaning up the #1 East/Victoria Ave. but there was really no reason to go a few km's south and west as they could have used the existing south bypass along with fixing up the Albert Street intersection.

[Draftsman]

Originally Posted by pappcam

Something was needed for cleaning up the #1 East/Victoria Ave. but there was really no reason to go a few km's south and west as they could have used the existing south bypass along with fixing up the Albert Street intersection.

Oh, I agree. A simple bypass further east of the current bypass (Victoria to Albert South) as had been proposed long ago would have been sufficient.

[one_brick_at_a_time]

Anyone know what they are doing in Victoria Park?

[one_brick_at_a_time]

I wish they would spruce up, restore and also add some new evening lighting on the Transit building. Light up the columns and clean it up a bit like how they did with the H&M Building. Currently it looks so sketchy at nightime.

[StealthGirl]

That's where the rink was. Time for the annual replant the grass.