YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Lancaster]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I'd agree with all of this, especially with the last dreamliners coming in there aren't a ton of new frames to open up new routes.

Changes I see for YVR are Melbourne going daily, new service to Singapore, and potentially a route to AKL, though I could see them just allowing their *A partner to handle it.

Also, highly doubt AC would go to CAN out of YYZ. If anything it would be YVR but I don't see either happening.

So what happens for AC now? Do they stop expanding over the next five years and let WS catch up? Can't believe that they would just be content to stop increasing market share.

[zahav]

Originally Posted by Lancaster

I intentionally left "some" out of the statement on YUL with regards to Asia. If you look at the asian destinations that mainline AC offers from YVR...
HKG (YYZ)
PEK (YYZ, YUL on CA (accounting for expected JV))
PVG (YYZ, YUL)
NRT (YYZ, YUL)
ICN (YYZ)
TPE

And then look at european destinations that mainline AC offers from YUL...
BRU
FRA (YYZ, YVR)
GVA (YYZ)
LYS
CDG (YYZ, YVR)
FCO (YYZ)
DUB (YYZ)
KEF

YUL has more fingers in YVR's 'Asia' cookie jar than YVR has in YUL's 'Europe'. And in both cases, YYZ is all over each airports "strengths". Whatever. I could not care less if YUL gets just as many asian services as YVR so long as the journey time for the passenger is the shortest. It makes zero sense for a passenger to fly NRT-YVR-BOS if a NRT-YUL-BOS ticket is available. If AC can do it profitably then it's only better for Canadians. However, I only get upset if AC strategized connecting passengers NRT-YUL-SFO instead of NRT-YVR-SFO.




That was a totally unnecessary drive-by.

If we are talking strictly AC, then yes YUL having 1/2 of the Asian destinations of YVR is a higher proportion than YVR has of Europe for sure. But if you take all airline services to both continents from both airports, then it changes fairly dramatically. The only European services YUL has that YVR doesn't is Swiss (and YVR has Swiss-owned Edelweiss), and seasonal Azores Airlines and Corsair (and Transat's various small frequency seasonal services). YVR has Icelandair, KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, British Airways same as YUL. But for Asia, YVR has ANA, JAL, Korean Air, Beijing Capital, Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, EVA, Hainan, Hong Kong Airlines, Philippine Airlines, Sichuan, and Xiamen (and tons of individual destinations amongst those). And really Asia Pacific is the correct category, so you add in AC to MEL, BNE, SYD, and *Alliance to AKL and YUL only has 3/10, and you can add Air New Zealand and Qantas to the other airlines list.

And please let's be honest, noflyzone goes out of his way to diminsh anything about YVR at every chance, it's just the way it is, doesn't matter, but it is what it is. Claiming it isn't the case is being really oblivious.... YUL is doing well and so is YVR, they have their own strengths, can't it just be discussed without so much hostility lol

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by zahav

If we are talking strictly AC, then yes YUL having 1/2 of the Asian destinations of YVR is a higher proportion than YVR has of Europe for sure. But if you take all airline services to both continents from both airports, then it changes fairly dramatically. The only European services YUL has that YVR doesn't is Swiss (and YVR has Swiss-owned Edelweiss), and seasonal Azores Airlines and Corsair (and Transat's various small frequency seasonal services). YVR has Icelandair, KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, British Airways same as YUL. But for Asia, YVR has ANA, JAL, Korean Air, Beijing Capital, Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, EVA, Hainan, Hong Kong Airlines, Philippine Airlines, Sichuan, and Xiamen (and tons of individual destinations amongst those). And really Asia Pacific is the correct category, so you add in AC to MEL, BNE, SYD, and *Alliance to AKL and YUL only has 3/10, and you can add Air New Zealand and Qantas to the other airlines list.

And please let's be honest, noflyzone goes out of his way to diminsh anything about YVR at every chance // edited//... (oh really?)

..........
I think you've made a good case for the number of airlines that do fly into Vancouver, Zahav. As you point out, there's quite an extensive list, a great many of them Chinese, but most major countries in Asia represented, usually - or more often than not - represented by their own airlines and not Air Canada - although AC opening up Australia, with Air NZ, YVR is sovereign of the south seas.

You stated -
YVR has Icelandair, KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, British Airways same as YUL.
That is true ...... but only if you're talking about Europe itself. Like YVR, YUL has its own batch of foreign airlines: Air Algérie,Royal Air Maroc, Qatar Airways, and Turkish.
Istanbul is a route I hope to see up and running hopefully some time in 2019. They'll get it if the feds don't block things. TK will also start Seattle runs about the same time, apparently.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I'd agree with all of this, especially with the last dreamliners coming in there aren't a ton of new frames to open up new routes.

Changes I see for YVR are Melbourne going daily, new service to Singapore, and potentially a route to AKL, though I could see them just allowing their *A partner to handle it.

Also, highly doubt AC would go to CAN out of YYZ. If anything it would be YVR but I don't see either happening.

I suspect there will be a change-up with asia/china service with the imminent AC/CA JV. I suppose we will see soon.

[thenoflyzone]

CAAC will ease "one route, one airline" policy for Chinese carriers, starting Oct 1, 2018. Still a lot of restrictions in place for Category II intl long haul routes, which Canada is part of.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china...olicy-for-chinese-carriers-idUSKCN1IF0SR

Based on the details being discussed over on airliners, the new policy is still heavily skewed in CA's favor.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1394075

Unless the Canada-China bilateral is renegotiated, which I don't see happening, especially if the Conservatives return to power next year, Chinese carriers will still be maxed out and won't be able to take advantage of this new ruling.

[nname]

Osaka Summer 2019 Operation:

AC39 YVR 1320 - 1545+1 KIX 788 247
AC40 KIX 1715 - 1015 YVR 788 135

Effective May 12; can't see schedule past May 21 yet...

I guess that doesn't leave room for the NGO flight...

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by nname

Osaka Summer 2019 Operation:

AC39 YVR 1320 - 1545+1 KIX 788 247
AC40 KIX 1715 - 1015 YVR 788 135

Effective May 12; can't see schedule past May 21 yet...

I guess that doesn't leave room for the NGO flight...

788?!... YVR-KIX is being mainlined?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

788?!... YVR-KIX is being mainlined?

All the RV 767s are moving out east. Mostly to address operational reliability issues. Those 767s are getting old, and basing them at 3 hubs across the country was proving to be too difficult and came with some challenges.

Basing them solely at YYZ/YUL will help offset some of those issues.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

All the RV 767s are moving out east. Mostly to address operational reliability issues. Those 767s are getting old, and basing them at 3 hubs across the country was proving to be too difficult and came with some challenges.

Basing them solely at YYZ/YUL will help offset some of those issues.

In that case, I'm just glad they're keeping the YVR-KIX run and upgauging it... though it sounds like it's at the sacrifice of YVR-NGO.

I'm assuming this flight won't be marketed as an AC Rouge flight.

[zahav]

It definitely won't have anything to do with Rouge, it's just a straight-up mainline flight now. The schedule and days could change, but it is going mainline as has been rumoured for a while. Now just NGO and DUB left for Rouge, I wonder if they would consider a mainline 330 on DUB?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by zahav

It definitely won't have anything to do with Rouge, it's just a straight-up mainline flight now. The schedule and days could change, but it is going mainline as has been rumoured for a while. Now just NGO and DUB left for Rouge, I wonder if they would consider a mainline 330 on DUB?

Do you think that DUB would still be seasonal, or (just maybe) go to year-round? I ask this in part because, as I understand, AER LINGUS is going to start year-round to SEA
Or is this just a change of aircraft?

[connect2source]

Had the pleasure of riding LH's brand new A350 service to Munich May 3rd, the second day of the service, here are some pics from the tailcam and wheelcam leaving YVR and approaching MUC. Just a heads-up, the business class product is still the mediocre 2-2-2 layout but the service was fantastic. The A350 is a dream the fly, super-quiet, large windows, much improved humidity and noticeably wider than the 787.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Do you think that DUB would still be seasonal, or (just maybe) go to year-round? I ask this in part because, as I understand, AER LINGUS is going to start year-round to SEA
Or is this just a change of aircraft?

EI is year round because the two cities have business ties.

Microsoft and Amazon, two companies based in Seattle, have significant operations in Ireland.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

EI is year round because the two cities have business ties.

Microsoft and Amazon, two companies based in Seattle, have significant operations in Ireland.

I think you've answered my question. Thanks.

[officedweller]

City of Richmond set to approve permit for YVR jet-fuel pipeline


The 13-kilometre pipeline project is expected to cost more than $150 million | VAFFC
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/2018/05/22/city-richmond-jet-fuel-pipeline/

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Lancaster

So what happens for AC now? Do they stop expanding over the next five years and let WS catch up? Can't believe that they would just be content to stop increasing market share.

Sounds like it. They just announced they will not be exercising their options on the remaining 10 dreamliners they had options for. Too bad, this will definitely hurt YVR the most, as YUL still has some A333s inbound which could easily rotate through YYZ too but not YVR.

Originally Posted by nname

Osaka Summer 2019 Operation:

AC39 YVR 1320 - 1545+1 KIX 788 247
AC40 KIX 1715 - 1015 YVR 788 135

Effective May 12; can't see schedule past May 21 yet...

I guess that doesn't leave room for the NGO flight...

Hmm, only 3x PW? That's a big capacity cut. Hope it increases past May.

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

EI is year round because the two cities have business ties.

Microsoft and Amazon, two companies based in Seattle, have significant operations in Ireland.

I'd imagine DUB gets mainlined out of YVR and likely goes year round soon. There are an astounding number of new Irish immigrants in Vancouver and the tech scenes between the two cities are flourishing.

[casper]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Sounds like it. They just announced they will not be exercising their options on the remaining 10 dreamliners they had options for. Too bad, this will definitely hurt YVR the most, as YUL still has some A333s inbound which could easily rotate through YYZ too but not YVR.



Hmm, only 3x PW? That's a big capacity cut. Hope it increases past May.



I'd imagine DUB gets mainlined out of YVR and likely goes year round soon. There are an astounding number of new Irish immigrants in Vancouver and the tech scenes between the two cities are flourishing.

they still have some 787 coming they have 4 A330 and they have added a number of narrow body 737 max doing routes that use to be done by wide body aircraft

it is all positive for Vancouver if you add more 330 and overwater flying for 737 out of Toronto and Montreal that frees up 787 for YVR flying. even shifting hHawaii to 737 is a positive as it allows Ac to open new routes with the displaced aircraft

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Lancaster

So what happens for AC now? Do they stop expanding over the next five years and let WS catch up? Can't believe that they would just be content to stop increasing market share.

The market for used 333 is quite strong and not expected to tighten over the next while.

The max8 TransAt operation could grow to the point where AC mainline opens daily services to all of EDi, GLA, MAN, BHX etc. frees up additional widebody capacity.

There are possibilities for a 10-20 airplane fleet of 321neo or max10 aircraft.

AC might decide to wait for the 797 or similar offering from Airbus. At some point airplane manufacturers will realize there is a market for 190-250 seat small J cabin widebody aircraft. The current participants 332 and 788 are not well suited for the market as they require a large premium cabin(s) to get the seat count down to 220-250.

[nname]

From the schedule, seems like AC will increase YVR-YZF to 2x daily starting Oct 27...

Late night departures added from both YVR and YZF.

And also, YVR-SJC and YVR-SAN are both 3x daily through most of the winter. I remembered they were 2x daily each last winter?

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by Cage

The market for used 333 is quite strong and not expected to tighten over the next while.

The max8 TransAt operation could grow to the point where AC mainline opens daily services to all of EDi, GLA, MAN, BHX etc. frees up additional widebody capacity.

There are possibilities for a 10-20 airplane fleet of 321neo or max10 aircraft.

AC might decide to wait for the 797 or similar offering from Airbus. At some point airplane manufacturers will realize there is a market for 190-250 seat small J cabin widebody aircraft. The current participants 332 and 788 are not well suited for the market as they require a large premium cabin(s) to get the seat count down to 220-250.

I know this is a little further off of the YVR discussion board but i am curious how the ex-Rouge flights are/will be doing this summer and how that translates into next year. An example is YYZ-WAW. This flight among others have been switched to mainline service. Looking at some bookings during the summer, the loads look poor. I know that looking at bookings through AC.com doesn't tell the whole story but with the retirement of the mainline 767's in 2019 what happens? Will these flights be dropped? Sure the 330 will not take over a YYZ-WAW flight. Or am i missing something in that mainline AC will retire the 767's but Rouge will actually take over these birds?