Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[Vin]

O

Originally Posted by Changing City

Like it or not, we live in a bureaucratic world. I was merely responding to "The money saved can be used to seismically upgrade ALL the Vancouver schools, which the City doesn't have funds for". It can't because they're two unrelated sets of projects, and if the City of Vancouver chose not to proceed with replacing the viaducts, any money not spent wouldn't be spent on seismically improving schools because schools aren't with the City's jurisdiction. The Province are responsible for spending money on schools. The City of Vancouver are spending many millions on seismic improvements to buildings and facilities within their jurisdiction - including the steel bracing on the Vancity Building and demolishing the East Wing of City Hall.

In this case the City are intending to demolish the viaducts rather than spend money on retaining and strengthening them. The replacement costs more, as the reports to Council make clear. It's not being hidden - it was a choice, and the decision was to replace them with a surface road system and generate additional land as a result.

The report says "Staff evaluated the cost of retrofitting the viaducts (approximately $90 million and would provide another 50 years of service) and replacing the structures with new viaducts (approximately $120 million and would provide another 100 years of service). The $360 million overall cost estimates for the viaducts removal and street network reconfiguration project includes $24 million that has already been spent on studies and design work. The cost is part of the Public Benefit Strategy that will be over $1 billion, and "the City anticipates that the Northeast False Creek PBS will be largely funded though development-related revenues, sale or lease of City owned lands in Northeast False Creek, senior government contributions, and other strategic partnerships."

Lies and half truths, that's all I can say.

If the viaducts are retrofitted, wouldn't they be paid for by developing the surrounding lands too? In fact, since this is way cheaper than tearing them down and redoing the entire road system, there would be a few hundred million dollars left over that the City can donate to the Province to upgrade the schools, it they so desire. Otherwise, the extra funds can be used to put in a street car system, build a community centre, put in a tall subsidized housing building, etc.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

O

Lies and half truths, that's all I can say.

If the viaducts are retrofitted, wouldn't they be paid for by developing the surrounding lands too? In fact, since this is way cheaper than tearing them down and redoing the entire road system, there would be a few hundred million dollars left over that the City can donate to the Province to upgrade the schools, it they so desire. Otherwise, the extra funds can be used to put in a street car system, build a community centre, put in a tall subsidized housing building, etc.

I don't see any of the mayoral candidates talking at all about the viaducts. Because it's a done decision and nobody cares.

Please get over it.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't see any of the mayoral candidates talking at all about the viaducts. Because it's a done decision and nobody cares.

Please get over it.

Red herring: dismissing the argument when you can't argue further.

Nobody cares? Haven't you been reading this thread, or are you just pleading ignorance?

You don't have to reply to this: just "get over it because nobody cares".

[jlousa]

I agree it's a done deal, but i disagree that no one cares. Lots of people care. But Concord probably has more dirt on both parties candidates that it doesn't matter who wins the election.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't see any of the mayoral candidates talking at all about the viaducts. Because it's a done decision and nobody cares.

Please get over it.

Looks like the same may be true for the Langley Line being LRT, that doesn’t mean those who know that Skytrain is the superior choice should just stand by and say nothing.

Would you also recommend this to people who are against major highway projects when they look to be a “done deal?”

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Would you also recommend this to people who are against major highway projects when they look to be a “done deal?”

Yes, stop complaining about the same tired old points again and again.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I agree it's a done deal, but i disagree that no one cares. Lots of people care. But Concord probably has more dirt on both parties candidates that it doesn't matter who wins the election.

When I say "nobody cares", I'm referring broadly to the people of Vancouver. Apart from a half dozen dedicated SSP members, it's just not being discussed.

If it were relevant, it would be a part of the mayoral race.

[jlousa]

What is part of the mayoral race? The public is suffering from apathy and just doesn't care about anything and the voting numbers show that. On any given day the most important topic could be housing costs, homeless, drug ods, traffic, bike lanes, politician pensions etc etc, there is no one talking point.

[hollywoodnorth]

I think if we can get Glen Chernen in as Mayor we may be saved!

https://chernen.com/about/

Keep the Viaducts

The inability of City of Vancouver to sell our property for market prices through fair and open bidding processes is an epic failure which costs us all. The viaducts removal concept is a pure money grab that will hurt locals instead of helping us. The city should be looking at ways to make real estate more affordable but concepts such as this only make housing less affordable to locals while increasing pollution.
Keep the Viaducts

A beautiful park has been owed to the City for many years.
The land disposal brings no added benefits to our community.
A removal would increase commuting times, delivery times, and raise the cost of living.
A removal would decrease our quality of life.
A removal would lead to substantial financial losses.
A removal would lead to added density
without adequate “transportation”,
with increased education systems stress,
with underfunded demands on health care, policing, etc.

[trofirhen]

Interesting! When is the next mayoral election?

[GenWhy?]

Oh Glen. Does he mention why we should keep them? No. How many NPA candidates jumped ship this week? His campaign only has specifics on keeping these things up and barely mentions the housing issues in Van.

And more public consultation? Good greif.

[Bdawe]

Glen Chernen's lawsuits about city land deals have generally been thrown out with prejudice by the courts. He's a crank

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

Glen Chernen's lawsuits about city land deals have generally been thrown out with prejudice by the courts. He's a crank

Glen Chernen terrifies me as a mayoral candidate. I think I'd prefer Adrienne Carr.

He's about the most anti-development guy you can get. Avoid like the plague.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yeah, no matter where you stand on the viaducts, it's better to have them go than elect the NIMBY-in-Chief.

[Feathered Friend]

There's plenty more info in these two FOI links for whoever wants it.

Asbestos-containing asphalt has been identified on the Georgia Viaduct including the off ramp to Main Street. Samples were observed as a homogenous single phase with no distinguishable layers. Asphalt core samples average depth was 3" to concrete deck.

http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/2018-003-release1.pdf

Lead-Based Finish Results
Sampling of suspect paint finishes was conducted within the work area. Table 1 shows the concentration of lead in paint for the samples collected:
11387-LP01 Road Marking -White 6.7
11387-LP02 Road Marking- Yellow 381
11387-LP03 Lamp Post- Silver/Grey 49,700

http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/2018-003-release1.pdf

The Dunsmuir Viaduct was constructed circa 1973 and is generally in good condition. There do not appear to be any significant functional deficiencies at present that would limit the life expectancy of the structure. We estimate the remaining service life of the structure to be 15 years before major rehabilitation or replacement is required.

http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/2018-003-release2.pdf

The following seismic deficiencies were identified, and where possible, expressed as demand to capacity ratios:
~ Columns D22 to D18:
o Poor detailing of reinforcing steel
o Insufficient shear and torsional capacity
o Insufficient flexural capacity
~ Liquefaction potential at D18 and D17
~ Foundations D22 to D17: Insufficient resistance to overturning and sliding
~ Pull-out of girder reinforcement from pier caps at D21 and D19
~ Insufficient bearing seat length at abutment
~ Insufficient transverse resistance at abutment shear key
~ Insufficient gap at interface with Costco I Spectrum building

http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/2018-003-release2.pdf

[officedweller]

Panel to ponder three options for arterial road and overpass through False Creek Flats
http://www.vancourier.com/news/panel-to-...ass-through-false-creek-flats-1.23304476

[Metro-One]

Thanks for the link.

Malkin still makes the most sense.

Is there any progress / movement on a north / south road overpass over the other rail yard south of Terminal? I hope future developments around the False Creek Flats are planned with this in mind.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Is there any progress / movement on a north / south road overpass over the other rail yard south of Terminal? I hope future developments around the False Creek Flats are planned with this in mind.

It's in the FCF planning documents that were released in the last year or so. At Thornton Street IIRC.

[officedweller]

I think the 2nd Containers Building has space next to it for a pedestrian ramp

[Metro-One]

Pedestrian only?

That is a long gap without connectivity.

I think an overpass with a 2 lane road + bike lanes and sidewalks is not asking too much.