Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[WBC]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I was just watching a "yeah, but" type of video which shows the new NEFC plans after the Viaducts are taken down. The narrator admits that a lot could be done with the space under the Viaducts, but... the Viaducts are not seismically fit. Is that true? Are they not seismically fit? (Presumably for when the Big One strikes). Does anyone have an answer for that? Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsU6Hu4HG_k

Well a bunch of schools in BC are not seismically fit but we have no problem sending our kids into them every day...That's just a BS argument that could be used to justify just about anything...

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by WBC

Well a bunch of schools in BC are not seismically fit but we have no problem sending our kids into them every day...That's just a BS argument that could be used to justify just about anything...

Haha! Yes!! That's more or less what I figured. Thanks. Oh, and did you notice what a weird, munchkin voice the narrator had? That also deleted project plausibility, IMO.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by WBC

Well a bunch of schools in BC are not seismically fit but we have no problem sending our kids into them every day...That's just a BS argument that could be used to justify just about anything...

The George Massey Tunnel is not seismically fit however 90000+ vehicles use it everyday?

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

The George Massey Tunnel is not seismically fit however 90000+ vehicles use it everyday?

Shhhh that's a myth to all the anti new bridge conspiracy whackos.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Famous Vancouver Planning Strategy; "Things will just "sort themselves out"

No kidding!

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by WBC

Well a bunch of schools in BC are not seismically fit but we have no problem sending our kids into them every day...That's just a BS argument that could be used to justify just about anything...

And it turns out that the government has identified all of the schools that have seismic problems and is working to replace or rehab them to make the seismically sound. Which is pretty much what the City of Vancouver did with the viaducts too when they determined retrofitting them wouldn't be cost effective.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

And it turns out that the government has identified all of the schools that have seismic problems and is working to replace or rehab them to make the seismically sound. Which is pretty much what the City of Vancouver did with the viaducts too when they determined retrofitting them wouldn't be cost effective.

Funny you say that:

$65 million to Retrofit
VS
$300-400 million to take it down

You do the math, literally.

P.S. The money saved can be used to seismically upgrade ALL the Vancouver schools, which the City doesn't have funds for.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

P.S. The money saved can be used to seismically upgrade ALL the Vancouver schools, which the City doesn't have funds for.

When did the City of Vancouver become responsible for anything to do with Vancouver schools?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

When did the City of Vancouver become responsible for anything to do with Vancouver schools?

Vin doesn't let reality get in the way of his arguments.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Changing City

When did the City of Vancouver become responsible for anything to do with Vancouver schools?

that's what trips you up? not the difference of 300-400 million vs 65 million?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

that's what trips you up? not the difference of 300-400 million vs 65 million?

Haha exactly. That's very Trumpish of some people to throw red herrings around just to get away from a losing argument. Take note too WarrenC12

By the way, the City also doesn't have the 300mil to take down the viaducts.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

that's what trips you up? not the difference of 300-400 million vs 65 million?

To be fair, my understanding is that a chunk of the demolition cost will be recovered by selling the land and collecting the development fees for it.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by Changing City

When did the City of Vancouver become responsible for anything to do with Vancouver schools?

That's a very bureaucratic view of the world...

As a taxpayer on all government levels I really do not give a rats 🞵🞵🞵 as to what level of government is responsible for something. It just needs to get done.

The point is that all levels of government use the seismic argument when they want to get their pet project going. They have no problem sitting on seismic issues for decades when the problem is not 🞵🞵🞵🞵 enough to solve.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

that's what trips you up? not the difference of 300-400 million vs 65 million?

Given the 1,650+ million needed for Surrey's little B-Line train, 400 mil seems like peanuts.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WBC

That's a very bureaucratic view of the world...

As a taxpayer on all government levels I really do not give a rats 🞵🞵🞵 as to what level of government is responsible for something. It just needs to get done.

The point is that all levels of government use the seismic argument when they want to get their pet project going. They have no problem sitting on seismic issues for decades when the problem is not 🞵🞵🞵🞵 enough to solve.

Like it or not, we live in a bureaucratic world. I was merely responding to "The money saved can be used to seismically upgrade ALL the Vancouver schools, which the City doesn't have funds for". It can't because they're two unrelated sets of projects, and if the City of Vancouver chose not to proceed with replacing the viaducts, any money not spent wouldn't be spent on seismically improving schools because schools aren't with the City's jurisdiction. The Province are responsible for spending money on schools. The City of Vancouver are spending many millions on seismic improvements to buildings and facilities within their jurisdiction - including the steel bracing on the Vancity Building and demolishing the East Wing of City Hall.

In this case the City are intending to demolish the viaducts rather than spend money on retaining and strengthening them. The replacement costs more, as the reports to Council make clear. It's not being hidden - it was a choice, and the decision was to replace them with a surface road system and generate additional land as a result.

The report says "Staff evaluated the cost of retrofitting the viaducts (approximately $90 million and would provide another 50 years of service) and replacing the structures with new viaducts (approximately $120 million and would provide another 100 years of service). The $360 million overall cost estimates for the viaducts removal and street network reconfiguration project includes $24 million that has already been spent on studies and design work. The cost is part of the Public Benefit Strategy that will be over $1 billion, and "the City anticipates that the Northeast False Creek PBS will be largely funded though development-related revenues, sale or lease of City owned lands in Northeast False Creek, senior government contributions, and other strategic partnerships."

[jsbertram]

so, did the viaducts worked as designed during the marathon today?

even though expo and pacific boulevards in the area were closed for the marathon, were the viaducts able to handle the traffic running overhead?

likely drivers using the viaducts were happy for some normal access to / from downtown during the marathon

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

The George Massey Tunnel is not seismically fit however 90000+ vehicles use it everyday?

It's like everyone has forgotten the seismic upgrade the Liberals undertook a decade ago. Kevin Falcon went on the record saying that with those enhancements, the tunnel was safe and future construction would be address congestion issues alone.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

so, did the viaducts worked as designed during the marathon today?

even though expo and pacific boulevards in the area were closed for the marathon, were the viaducts able to handle the traffic running overhead?

likely drivers using the viaducts were happy for some normal access to / from downtown during the marathon

The Dunsmuir Viaduct was also closed for the marathon this morning. Traffic was a little heavier on Hastings. Yesterday the Georgia Viaduct was closed for a while for the visit of the Aga Khan.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The Dunsmuir Viaduct was also closed for the marathon this morning. Traffic was a little heavier on Hastings. Yesterday the Georgia Viaduct was closed for a while for the visit of the Aga Khan.

Apparently, nowadays there is no event too small that does not require viaduct closure somehow...I am surprised that Shania Twain concert will not require at least 3 day closure...for "safety" reasons...And I mean if Ryan and a Khan get to close it why not Shania?

I would suggest that they just close the entire downtown for traffic when they are having these major events as our ehm, highly resilient road infrastructure experiences a choking collapse every time they close a few streets...It could be a full on festival...Close all roads and entry points into downtown - people walking everywhere...It would be cool...Instead you just have cars trying to navigate maze of barricades with people being pissed off.

[M00dy]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

It's like everyone has forgotten the seismic upgrade the Liberals undertook a decade ago. Kevin Falcon went on the record saying that with those enhancements, the tunnel was safe and future construction would be address congestion issues alone.

This is a pretty simplistic (political) assessment. The upgrades were done that made it capable of withstanding smaller earthquakes, but it's definitely not able to withstand the same level of earthquakes as modern structures. I definitely wouldn't want to be in there when the "big one" hits.

A quick google search found me this: Link

Most modern projects I believe require structures to avoid collapse/total failure up to 1:2475 year earthquakes. It looks like the improvements only covered up to 1:275.