CHICAGO | 400 N Lake Shore Drive | 851 FT & 765 FT | 73 & ? FLOORS

[Notyrview]

I think for a lot of us this isn't about height really, it's about expecting better design from a notoriously cheap developer. If Related proposes a really good 1000 footer, I'll be thrilled.

[HomrQT]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

perhaps. or maybe he's referring to that gateway tower thing gensler released.

either way, neither had anything to do with related midwest, the actual owner of the site. they were just fantasies from other parties.

related midwest has not released any public info on what they intend to build on the site, so hormQT's claim of "bait and switch" is entirely without merit as things currently stand.

I was referring to the Spire, then Gensler's Gateway tower, both at 2,000ft, just to now hear we are most likely getting something way shorter than 2,000 feet. It's a theme in many of our larger projects that were shortened/ve'd/cancelled across the city.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by HomrQT

I was referring to the original Spire, then Gensler's Gateway tower, both at 2,000ft, just to now hear we are most likely getting something way shorter than 2,000 feet. It's a theme in many of our larger projects that were shortened/ve'd/cancelled across the city.

the spire died nearly a decade ago and gensler's thing was never a real thing.

if you were seriously expecting something 2,000' on this site, then that's on you. i think most of us who follow this stuff fairly closely knew that related was never gonna throw up a mega-tall on this land.

whatever related midwest ends up proposing here (and i would hazard an educated guess that it will be far shorter than 2,000') won't represent a shortening or a VE or anything like that because related midwest has absolutely nothing to do with kelleher's wild fantasy tower.

[Buckman821]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Mine won't be a popular sentiment here but.....

If latest rumors are true and the taller of the two towers fail to reach over 1,000ft there will be some disappointment for sure. Should there be?

After thinking about the developments in recent weeks I view this as an almost unintentional fair trade with the Tribune Tower plans. Did anyone think it was likely we would get well over 1,000ft for the new TT tower? I sure didn't. Would most have been happy with a 700-999ft. at the Tribune site that we may get at the Spire site? I think most would have said yes. The switch in expectations is perhaps just what we'll get if receive if rumours are true and both developments play out.

And in hindsight, we shouldn't be surprised if it does play that way. If I were ready to plop down +1million on a condo at either I would choose the Tribune site all day and night. Unless you REALLY REALLY love unobstructed lake views (of which the top 1/3 of TT will give you essentially as well) than what advantage does the Spire site offer over the TT site? The TT sits right on Michigan Ave and RN eateries. It sits closer to the Loop and transit options if you aren't retired and still working. The Spire site is on a bit of a relative island unless you are a running/biking enthusiast. And that will maybe be a big advantage when the lakefront pedestrian bridge opens in the year 2060.

All in all, I think an unexpected but fair trade for us skyscraper geeks with the two sites. I just hope to see both projects get off the ground provided Related comes through with a good design for the Spire site.

Could not possibly agree more. The Spire site has always been vastly overrated. This only looks like a premier site if you're in a boat or on Lake Shore Drive. The spire plan made sense because it was targeting foreign buyers that wouldn't even spend enough time in the city to know the difference anyway - and it would look good when you point it out to your friends on a post card.

You can walk to almost nothing in less than 5 minutes from this site and even the vehicular access is terrible, you have to get on LSD to go anywhere, assuming Water Street won't be opened up like it wasn't in the Spire plan.

Lake views are boring anyway, I'd rather have city views any day.

I hope that something good looking ends up here, because it is a prominent site in terms of tourist eyes. However, I think there are plenty of other sites much more deserving of intense mega-super tall development than this one.

[HomrQT]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the spire died nearly a decade ago and gensler's thing was never a real thing.

if you were seriously expecting something 2,000' on this site, then that's on you. i think most of us who follow this stuff fairly closely knew that related was never gonna throw up a mega-tall on this land.

whatever related midwest ends up proposing here (and i would hazard an educated guess that it will be far shorter than 2,000') won't represent a shortening or a VE or anything like that because related midwest has absolutely nothing to do with kelleher's wild fantasy tower.

I don't know why you're always in such a foul mood. You attack me for having the opinion that it sucks we get shown these massive tall projects and then they disappear. Ok Steely, I'll make sure to call you out the next time you complain about a project that didn't come to fruition or meet your expectations.

[Pioneer]

My expectation for Related's proposal for the Spire site... Their press release will read as follows...

"We will fill in with concrete the existing hole that was left from the unfinished Spire building. Building amenities include concrete and sweeping ground-floor views."

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by HomrQT

I don't know why you're always in such a foul mood.

i'm not in a foul mood at all.

far from it in fact, as i have a 3 day weekend coming up, woo-hoo!

Originally Posted by HomrQT

You attack me for having the opinion that it sucks we get shown these massive tall projects and then they disappear.

i'm not "attacking" you, just pointing out that "these massive tall projects" you've been shown weren't real.

it's fine if you're disappointed that there won't be a mega-tall going on the 400 N LSD site, but there's no bait and switch going on here. related owns the site and has shown us nothing.

if related had released renderings for a well-deisgned 1,800' monster tower with high quality finishes and then ended up building an 800' beige-painted concrete box, then we could talk about bait and switch.

[left of center]

I really hope Related doesn't drop the ball here. This site, along with the twinned LSE site immediately to the south, will allow Chicago to create a framed entryway to the river from the lake, and will define the view of the city from the lake (and therefor, almost every single postcard, movie or tv shot of the city) and really be one of the core mental images of Chicago that non Chicagoans will have of our city. While I have plenty of faith that Magellan will pull it off (they've learned to keep "Low-End-berg" from doing anything design-wise and turning it into a crap Grand Plaza clone), I am hesitant to say the same about Related. I can only hope that, like others said, they realize that their reputation is really at stake here, and will try to deliver a fantastic design that will be the signature work for their portfolio.

Here's to hoping. *fingers crossed*

[HomrQT]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i'm not in a foul mood at all.

far from it in fact, as i have a 3 day weekend coming up, woo-hoo!

Hard to believe you're not in a foul mood, you seem to be just looking to pick a fight.

i'm not "attacking" you, just pointing out that "these massive tall projects" you've been shown weren't real.

it's fine if you're disappointed that there won't be a mega-tall going on the 400 N LSD site, but there's no bait and switch going on here. related owns the site and has shown us nothing.

if related had released renderings for a well-deisgned 1,800' monster tower with high quality finishes and then ended up building an 800' beige-painted concrete box, then we could talk about bait and switch.

It's an attack. You're trying to dictate that it's not appropriate that I'm disappointed a 2,000 ft building isn't going on this site by using some tangent logic that another developer now controls the site. The Spire was on it's way, a lot of foundation work was done. And "real" or not, based on the renderings, I'm disappointed that these larger projects didn't happen, regardless of who the developer is. I find it silly you're even trying to argue against me being disappointed that we have been shown multiple giant proposals for this site and now a 2,000 footer is all but out of the running now.

Enjoy the long weekend.

[Notyrview]

Originally Posted by HomrQT

I was referring to the Spire, then Gensler's Gateway tower, both at 2,000ft, just to now hear we are most likely getting something way shorter than 2,000 feet. It's a theme in many of our larger projects that were shortened/ve'd/cancelled across the city.

I hear you, but even a 1000 foot Gensler tower would be incredible. I mean, the tribune tower is massive but not so great. We don't need two of those, we need better design.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by HomrQT

Hard to believe you're not in a foul mood, you seem to be just looking to pick a fight.




It's an attack. You're trying to dictate that it's not appropriate that I'm disappointed a 2,000 ft building isn't going on this site by using some tangent logic that another developer now controls the site. The Spire was on it's way, a lot of foundation work was done. And "real" or not, based on the renderings, I'm disappointed that these larger projects didn't happen, regardless of who the developer is. I find it silly you're even trying to argue against me being disappointed that we have been shown multiple giant proposals for this site and now a 2,000 footer is all but out of the running now.

Enjoy the long weekend.

But what are you disappointed about? Related has literally released no information about their plans for the Spire site, how can you be disappointed when we haven't seen anything?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by HomrQT

It's an attack. You're trying to dictate that it's not appropriate that I'm disappointed a 2,000 ft building isn't going on this site .

huh?

i literally just said

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

it's fine if you're disappointed that there won't be a mega-tall going on the 400 N LSD site

honestly dude, there's no attacking here, just clarifying.

[Chi-Sky21]

a lot of personal "attacks" going on around here lately..you guys are taking all this to seriously....i come here to get away from all the vitriol and hate in the world today! I say...Lighten up francis!

[left of center]

Originally Posted by HomrQT

I don't know why you're always in such a foul mood. You attack me for having the opinion that it sucks we get shown these massive tall projects and then they disappear. Ok Steely, I'll make sure to call you out the next time you complain about a project that didn't come to fruition or meet your expectations.

I think you may have misinterpreted Steely's response to you. In the many years I've been reading these boards, I can safely say that he is probably one of the most most fair, level headed posters on here.

It's all good dude. We're all here for the same reason

[Notyrview]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

But what are you disappointed about? Related has literally released no information about their plans for the Spire site, how can you be disappointed when we haven't seen anything?

Uhh have you seen Related's portfolio?

[Notyrview]

Originally Posted by left of center

I think you may have misinterpreted Steely's response to you. In the many years I've been reading these boards, he is probably one of the most most fair, level headed posters on here.

It's all good dude. We're all here for the same reason

Yeah he's fair. For the longest time, I thought it was him deleting any post i made that was critical of OBP. But that's not that case.

[donnie]

Stick to the topic people and personal problems should be told to your shrink or local bartender!

CAN'T WAIT.._..

[Kumdogmillionaire]

60 minutes or less before the news might start breaking from my favorite peeps who are able to attend the 78, which reminds me. Here's my humble predictions:

- Two towers, one shorter than the other, which is all but confirmed by everything we know... so that's hardly a bold claim

- The main tower will kind of look like a choad, and use much of the foundation from the Spire.

-The second tower will be MUCH smaller. Thin and under 700 feet. The main will be under 900 feed.

-They will have terracotta involved at the base and run up to the top, where both will have weird pyramid tops like they belong in Philly or Charlotte

-At least 4 people throw tomatos at Related during the presentation

-An old woman faints, and a dog dies in the crowd only moments after the bad designs are released

-They start to VE the design during the presentation, small children and women begin to cry now.

-The financial markets crash

-And worst of all, I, and at least 3 other people get into a slapfight here.

Hold me ladies and gents

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Notyrview

Uhh have you seen Related's portfolio?

Yes, I like many of their projects. The question still stands, as of today, what is there to be disappointed about as it relates to the Spire Site?

[Steely Dan]

^^ 400 N LSD presentation is next tuesday, not tonight.