The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[le calmar]

I would say the Beaudry station "escalator" really is a rolling carpet because it doesn't have stairs. But you can clearly see that the stairs are there, they are just "flat". So it depends where we draw the line. I remember de London Underground had an extremely long rolling carpet too, don't remember which station.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

How long are the Granville escalators on the Expo Line?

They always gave me a bit of a case of vertigo.

(The Granville and Burrard Expo Line stations have always reminded me of the London Underground)

And just as we were wondering, TransLink released information about the escalators when they are scheduled for replacement:

• Video Link

So the escalators are 115ft in length with 167 steps.

(Compared to 120ft and 180 steps for the Ottawa ones)

[J.OT13]

Well that's gonna suck!

Side not: the capacity issues on the Canada Line have been highly publicized, but any issues on the Expo? Either on the trains or overcrowded platforms. Lack of entrances to the downtown stations (no doubt that will be the case once they shut down this set of escalators at Granvile).

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Well that's gonna suck!

Side not: the capacity issues on the Canada Line have been highly publicized, but any issues on the Expo? Either on the trains or overcrowded platforms. Lack of entrances to the downtown stations (no doubt that will be the case once they shut down this set of escalators at Granvile).

Expo Line is probably much more congested than the Canada Line, both on trains and on platforms. The reason you hear more about the Canada Line is that it's newer, yet built to lower capacity than the Expo Line, so people are more upset about the alleged underbuilding than on the capacity issues themselves.

[J.OT13]

Canada Line's 40 meter platforms, expandable to 50 meters is quite low. That is a cost-cutting measure that will be very expensive 15 years down the line.

I figured Expo's 80 meter is pretty good, able to reach capacities of around 24,000 phpd (same as Ottawa's platforms expandable 120 meters), but I wasn't sure how crowded it would be today, being the main line to downtown.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Canada Line's 40 meter platforms, expandable to 50 meters is quite low. That is a cost-cutting measure that will be very expensive 15 years down the line.

I figured Expo's 80 meter is pretty good, able to reach capacities of around 24,000 phpd (same as Ottawa's platforms expandable 120 meters), but I wasn't sure how crowded it would be today, being the main line to downtown.

The quieter stations are fine, but the busy stations are insane on the Expo Line. Canada Line platforms get pretty bad too, but not as bad as what I've seen on the Expo Line still.

[Mikemike]

I understand that one of the benefits of the planned Broadway Millennium Line extension is that it will allow some riders to bypass the busiest sections of both those lines downtown. Makes sense to me, but I'm not sure how much the benefit will be.

[nname]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Canada Line's 40 meter platforms, expandable to 50 meters is quite low. That is a cost-cutting measure that will be very expensive 15 years down the line.

I figured Expo's 80 meter is pretty good, able to reach capacities of around 24,000 phpd (same as Ottawa's platforms expandable 120 meters), but I wasn't sure how crowded it would be today, being the main line to downtown.

Comparison of the three lines based on 2015 TSPR data for load and capacity (it's no longer online at this moment, and the 2016 version does not contain detailed capacity analysis):

		 Load	Cap(*)	%Full	Design	%Design
Expo Line	13,250	13,500	 98%	25,000	 53%
Canada Line	 6,250	 5,800	108%	15,000	 42%
Millennium Line	 3,640	 4,000	 91%	25,000	 15%

* Practical capacity as stated in the TSPR document. From another source, the "crush" capacity for Expo is 16,000; for Canada is 6,450 (6,100 + one additional train added).

[J.OT13]

Thanks!

[J.OT13]

Parliament Station from late April by me.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by nname

And just as we were wondering, TransLink released information about the escalators when they are scheduled for replacement:

• Video Link

So the escalators are 115ft in length with 167 steps.

(Compared to 120ft and 180 steps for the Ottawa ones)

Well that sure is a coincidence, thanks!

Shut down form2 years... dang... I guess anticipation for this may have been part of the reason why they added the west entrance about 10 years ago.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Canada Line's 40 meter platforms, expandable to 50 meters is quite low. That is a cost-cutting measure that will be very expensive 15 years down the line.

I figured Expo's 80 meter is pretty good, able to reach capacities of around 24,000 phpd (same as Ottawa's platforms expandable 120 meters), but I wasn't sure how crowded it would be today, being the main line to downtown.

Yes the Canada Line's critics {including myself} are upset not about it's current capacity but rather it's in ability to expand. 40 meter underground stations are probably amongst smallest in the world but the fact that they can only be expanded to 50 is what is scandalous. This is made even worse by the fact that the Richmond & YVR end stations are only single track and one sided stations while at Waterfront terminal there are 2 track stations but no place to park a needed emergency train so it sits stationary while one side of the platform has to accommodate both incoming and outgoing trains. Both of these things greatly inhibit capacity and safety on the platforms.

This is quite unlike the Expo/Millenium/Evergreen which are 80 meters but are all built to be expanded to approx. 105 meters so it has a lot of room to grow ridership.

[Treplow]

I'm surprised Lucien L'Allier metro doesn't take the deepest transit station crown - it feels like Journey to the Center of the Earth every time I venture down there

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Treplow

I'm surprised Lucien L'Allier metro doesn't take the deepest transit station crown - it feels like Journey to the Center of the Earth every time I venture down there

Because it's in a staircase shape so it's longer to get down than going straight down. So while it might take a longer time to take a metro than Beaudry, doesn't mean it's deeper.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Canada Line's 40 meter platforms, expandable to 50 meters is quite low. That is a cost-cutting measure that will be very expensive 15 years down the line.

I figured Expo's 80 meter is pretty good, able to reach capacities of around 24,000 phpd (same as Ottawa's platforms expandable 120 meters), but I wasn't sure how crowded it would be today, being the main line to downtown.

Even Hurontario LRT will have 60m trains on day one, expandable to 90m. 50m is the length of 4 buses.

However, the Canada Line trains are significantly wider at 3.0m compared to Skytrain, LRVs, buses which are around 2.6m wide. It is close to TTC subway train which is 3.1m wide.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Doady

Even Hurontario LRT will have 60m trains on day one, expandable to 90m. 50m is the length of 4 buses.

However, the Canada Line trains are significantly wider at 3.0m compared to Skytrain, LRVs, buses which are around 2.6m wide. It is close to TTC subway train which is 3.1m wide.

The REM seems to be using 3-3.2m wide cars. Capacity is at 780 per train thus a theoric capacity of31 200 pphpd. This is not light metro territory anymore.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

The REM seems to be using 3-3.2m wide cars. Capacity is at 780 per train thus a theoric capacity of31 200 pphpd. This is not light metro territory anymore.

They say eventually capacity of 15,000 pphpd from what I read.

Underbuilding transit is normal in Canada. The now obsolete Scarborough RT, the bus terminal at Square One operating at 200% capacity, the so-called "BRT" along Albert and Slater in Ottawa. Spending less to pay an even bigger price later on. Maybe Canada Line will be another example, in which case it's name will be fitting. Underestimating transit ridership is a Canadian past time.

That's why I just roll my eyes when people complain that a planned transit expansion will be overbuilt and underutilized. Spadina extension, Scarborough subway, Hurontario LRT, whatever. The ridership is too low. The ridership will be too low. It's just the same old story.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Doady

They say eventually capacity of 15,000 pphpd from what I read.

Planned operating capacity at first. Since the system is being conceived to sustain 90s headways, and with 780 passengers per train confirmed this week, a simple calculation gives above 30000pphpd.

I do agree that systems are underbuilt, as usage is for decades, if not centuries and upgrading systems will cost a fortune.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Parliament Station from late April by me.

Ottawa is finally getting a subway?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Doady

They say eventually capacity of 15,000 pphpd from what I read.

Underbuilding transit is normal in Canada. The now obsolete Scarborough RT, the bus terminal at Square One operating at 200% capacity, the so-called "BRT" along Albert and Slater in Ottawa. Spending less to pay an even bigger price later on. Maybe Canada Line will be another example, in which case it's name will be fitting. Underestimating transit ridership is a Canadian past time.

That's why I just roll my eyes when people complain that a planned transit expansion will be overbuilt and underutilized. Spadina extension, Scarborough subway, Hurontario LRT, whatever. The ridership is too low. The ridership will be too low. It's just the same old story.

Really what should be done is build for the near future, but have the lines built so that they can be expanded. Did they know that the Yonge part of the subway was going to get that busy when they built it?