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  #4501  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 4:39 PM
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https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinio...-plaza-designed-to-engage-481890423.html

Quote:
Sweeping new plaza designed to engage
Brent Bellamy By: Brent Bellamy
Posted: 05/7/2018

The Winnipeg Jets’ playoff run has cast a spotlight on our downtown. Images of hockey-crazed fans dancing in the streets have caught the imagination of the country.

Next year, the whiteout celebration will move from its temporary setup to a permanent home at True North Square. The sweeping new plaza, anchored by a six-by-nine-metre video screen, has been planned to accommodate several thousand people for concerts, festivals and other public events, but understanding the potential scale of street parties, the event space has been designed to expand to incorporate Carlton Street to form a huge, block-long festival area set within the four towers of the development.

The long-term success of True North Square as a public space will be measured, however, not only by its function during NHL playoffs, but also by its ability to engage the city and the people who use it every other day of the year. Large public spaces can be a difficult challenge in low-density cities such as Winnipeg, particularly in a downtown that has been designed with much higher priority given to vehicles than pedestrians. Without a determined focus on bringing people to the site and keeping them there, large public spaces can become desolate and unsafe.

The design team of True North Square, Vancouver’s Perkins+Will and PFS Studio, and Winnipeg’s Architecture 49 and McGowan Russell, have developed a plan that grew uniquely from the public spaces outward. Pedestrian connectivity was first considered, establishing pathways and sight lines through the development that link the major buildings in the area, including the arena and convention centre.

The public space then was organized around this circulation, and finally, buildings were composed along the plaza to maximize pedestrian comfort. The towers twist as they rise, allowing afternoon sunlight to flood the courtyard, and are carefully positioned to block the prevailing winter wind and shield people from the noise of the surrounding streets.

Each of the four towers houses a unique function: office, hotel, rental apartments and condominiums. This diversity of use will help to ensure the public spaces stay more active beyond the workday, establishing a broader market for retailers, increasing sidewalk activity and improving the feeling of safety. A density of 288 hotel suites, 325 residences, and up to 1,500 office workers on the site every day will begin to establish a critical mass of population.

To design a public space that makes people linger, the edges of the site must be considered carefully. Like nervous boys hugging the gym walls at a school dance, we instinctively find comfort at the perimeter of a space. The edges that define True North Square are designed to welcome pedestrians, with high, fully transparent glass walls that allow views from the plaza, through interior spaces and to the streets on the other side.

Façades will be porous, with numerous entrances that invite people to move freely between inside and out. Interior spaces and the outdoor plaza will share similar plantings, materials and colour palettes, to break down the edges and further establish a seamless pedestrian flow between each.

Ground-floor uses have been carefully choreographed to attract people to the site and inspire pedestrian activity along the sidewalks and in the plaza. A glass skywalk connects all four buildings, and is designed to have direct, easily identifiable public access to the sidewalk. The apartment tower along Graham Avenue will have retail units at the skywalk and sidewalk levels housing boutique shops and restaurants.

The curved south building will be home to a unique 30,000-square-foot cutting-edge food hall experience, spread over two interconnected floors.

The market will be an important amenity for downtown living and an attraction across the city. It will house a locally focused, chef-driven market, artisanal food vendors, and specialty grocery and retail concepts. Seating will spill into the plaza and out from the second floor onto a sun-drenched outdoor patio, connected back to the main plaza by a terraced seating amphitheatre that overlooks the site.

To ensure buildings don’t turn their back on the surrounding sidewalks, entrances will be located on both the street and plaza sides. Smaller, outward facing plazas at each of the northern corners will be important spots for sidewalk patios and other functions that extend the activity of the square into rest of downtown. Graham Avenue, from the arena to True North Square, will be raised to the level of the sidewalk, helping to calm the speed of bus traffic and create a seamless pedestrian flow.

The design pays special attention to creating a layered experience that breaks the large site down to a pedestrian scale. The buildings sit on a four-storey podium, with active, landscaped rooftops, that visually enclose the space and create an intimacy at eye level. Vegetation, granite paving, a water feature and sculptural wood seating elements are all used to define smaller, more human-scale spaces within the large plaza.

True North Square was a rare opportunity to design a major urban public space all at once. It attempts to reconcile the difficult challenge of being a place for thousands of people when hosting major events, while maintaining the intimacy and welcoming character that will make it an active urban plaza every day.

If all the design ingredients work together successfully, it will demonstrate the value of pedestrian-first design and bring a dynamic new energy to downtown Winnipeg, even when the Jets are not in the playoffs.

Brent Bellamy is senior design architect for Number Ten Architectural Group.





Last edited by Wpg_Guy; May 7, 2018 at 5:14 PM.
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  #4502  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 5:27 PM
headhorse headhorse is offline
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ok except they built pedways so people can completely ignore all that talk. just like everywhere else, there will be some people out in summer and it will be mostly barren in winter as everyone goes through the pedways.

this just sounds like propaganda for a plaza that was put on regular citizens to pay for. we're being told how we should be so lucky to have such a well designed public amenity, when it reality its a PRIVATE space that turn it's back to the streets, isn't needed and will serve a very small demographic.
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  #4503  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 5:32 PM
headhorse headhorse is offline
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like i can't believe we're still doing this 🞵🞵🞵🞵 in the year of our lord 2018.. defending semi-private, subsidized mega projects that make all the same mistakes.. some people live in a complete dream world
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  #4504  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 5:33 PM
headhorse headhorse is offline
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but i mean, CV are just a publicly funded lobbying body for the development industry so it shouldn't be surprising.
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  #4505  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 5:39 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headhorse View Post
ok except they built pedways so people can completely ignore all that talk. just like everywhere else, there will be some people out in summer and it will be mostly barren in winter as everyone goes through the pedways.

this just sounds like propaganda for a plaza that was put on regular citizens to pay for. we're being told how we should be so lucky to have such a well designed public amenity, when it reality its a PRIVATE space that turn it's back to the streets, isn't needed and will serve a very small demographic.
I love that every post that you put up is always the most pessimistic and depressing comment. Thank you for being so negative that all it forces me to point out all that I appreciate in life. You may want to talk to your doctor about why you are so negative. It may be something more serious.
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  #4506  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
I love that every post that you put up is always the most pessimistic and depressing comment. Thank you for being so negative that all it forces me to point out all that I appreciate in life. You may want to talk to your doctor about why you are so negative. It may be something more serious.
some of us don't get to pretend everything is ok
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  #4507  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 5:51 PM
Ando Ando is offline
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Personally, I think it's fantastic and kudos to the designers. It think it's going to be a real success.
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  #4508  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 5:52 PM
headhorse headhorse is offline
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Originally Posted by Ando View Post
Personally, I think it's fantastic and kudos to the designers. It think it's going to be a real success.
oh yeah, the developers will definitely make a ton of money.

no one else gets guarantees for their investments, but big time players get new roads, money from the working public, different design guidelines...

I mean, if having this public space is such a huge 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 deal, why didn't they just decide to upgrade and re-design and program an already existing public space? the library park, air canada park? instead they get a bunch of taxpayers money for their own profit..
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  #4509  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 6:05 PM
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I think headhorse is a time traveller from 1994 because those are the exact same things I would have expected to hear from random CJOB callers back then.

But that said, the criticisms are fair. TNS is unarguably inward-looking and like it or not, it is the recipient of public subsidies in the form of the TIF and a fairly significant lease from a provincial crown corporation. Now I suppose one could argue that anyone is eligible for the TIF and it isn't a special favour to TNSE, but it's a subsidy just the same.

Personally I don't mind the skywalk element because as someone who spends most days in downtown Winnipeg I value the comfort and convenience that skywalks bring, even if they aren't necessarily in keeping with urbanist dogma.

But all that being said I still think it's a great project and on the whole one that is worth the relatively minor amount of public dollars going into the entire project's costs.
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  #4510  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 6:26 PM
Urban recluse Urban recluse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headhorse View Post
some of us don't get to pretend everything is ok
No, but there are options to help cope with struggles. I suffer from bipolar disorder/depression, and it is not about pretending things are great.

Like Esquire, I make use of skywalks in the winter (in extreme cold).

All of the public money used is worth it. What I want to see is more investment along Graham and the cross streets, and of course the redevelopment of the Bay building, which I think will happen sooner than it would without TNS. It would be nice too, to see the redevelopment of the former Medical Arts Building start soon.
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  #4511  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 7:07 PM
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I see the public funds as an investment, 3.5% or 17M is a small investment for spawning 500 million in new private sector development. TN could have build this project with a seemingly underwhelming plaza for private use only, instead the city gains a beautiful new asset that will only enhance the livability of the downtown and we dont know what future developments will ride the coattails of this and all the other new developments downtown and in the SHED. The project as a whole pay dividends in many other ways, it creates jobs; New shops, restaurants, retail, hotel, construction. The food hall will allow young chefs to become entrepreneurs and start a business at a fraction of the startup costs of venturing out on their own (if it's based off other successful food hall models as suggested). I recall this same argument about public funds with the MTS Centre. Over 3 billion in redevelopment around the arena has been generated since the jets return.
I can personally attest to how the MTS Centre has had a significant impact on my life. Some of my best experiences and memories in life have come out of that facility, From seeing my favourite artists in concert to bonding with family and friends over a dinner and hockey game to the quality of entertainment shows that have enhanced the overall arts and cultural options the city has to offer. That's a return on a quality of life investment i can be forever grateful for to Truth North, the Chipmans and the three levels of government that had the foresight to invest in the future of Winnipeg and not just another road paved and pot hole filled.
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  #4512  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 7:25 PM
lilwayne lilwayne is offline
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What a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 headhorse ignorsnt 🞵🞵🞵 making assumptions without any fact

Truth is this plaza will be full of activity all seasons of the year.... in the winter they will most likely have christmas decorations ice rinks musical performances etc that will attract ppl from everywhere.. and during jets and most games im sure there will be plenty of ppl hanging out around outdoor space.. ya its cold in winter but i gaurantee they will utilize space year round just like the forks does and assinaboune park foes
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  #4513  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 7:48 PM
Tacheguy Tacheguy is offline
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[QUOTE=Urban recluse;8179492]No, but there are options to help cope with struggles. I suffer from bipolar disorder/depression, and it is not about pretending things are great.

Like Esquire, I make use of skywalks in the winter (in extreme cold).

All of the public money used is worth it. What I want to see is more investment along Graham and the cross streets, and of course the redevelopment of the Bay building, which I think will happen sooner than it would without TNS. It would be nice too, to see the redevelopment of the former Medical Arts Building start soon.[/QUOTEi

I see the Bay store in downtown Vancouver was sold for 675 million, according to the globe today.
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  #4514  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tacheguy View Post
I see the Bay store in downtown Vancouver was sold for 675 million, according to the globe today.
Not surprising, but still just a staggering amount. Wow.
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  #4515  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 7:57 PM
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Headhorse definitely hates developers and people who dont get paid hourly.

All of the debate about TNS is warranted. I hate skywalks too, but they are not going away, so the best solution is to have strong connections to the sidewalk...entrances that are not hidden within buildings, but are visible and easy to access. I give them points for doing that.

The TIF is a reality in downtown Winnipeg, if you dont like that, I get it...but without it, development goes to the easier suburbs.

I totally get the issue with a public space within the block sucking life from the street, but they appear to have worked hard to ensure that the buildings do not turn their backs on the streets. The residential entrance is not through the plaza. There are entrances to the CRU's on Graham and Carlton. The buildings are built right to the sidewalk with high transparency at ground level. Smaller plazas at each corner address the outisde streets, including the Hydro plaza. They have raised the street to make it a seamless pedestrian connection. They tried to do it between the hotel and plaza too, but Sutton didnt like it for whatever reason. I do feel like the designers created a balance that will keep some energy on the existing streets.

I also get the issue with privately owned public space...but that is also a reality in most north american cities. Portage and Main is privately owned too....I would think that if you were causing issues at the Forks you might get escorted away as well....but again, I do understand the issue philisophically.
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  #4516  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 8:06 PM
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Just think of the benefits. When TNS is open to host whiteout parties next year, it will be much easier to get in your car and vacate downtown ASAP. No party-goers clogging the street to worship said developers hockey team. A win-win!!
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  #4517  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 8:17 PM
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So is it safe to say True North Square turned out better than the initial concept, SoPo Square?



Incidentally, the news story that the picture above comes from ( https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/lakeview-checks-out-on-hotel-227344521.html ) mentioned that Lakeview was going to keep looking at development options for its lot on St. Mary Ave. after the previous hotel plan fell through 5 years ago. Has anyone heard about anything planned for that site? With activity heating up around there in recent years, it makes me wonder if Lakeview has come close to finding a formula that works for that site.

Lakeview's never-built hotel on St. Mary Ave.:


Source:http://westenddumplings.blogspot.ca/2012/01/five-times-lucky-for-lakeview-hotel.html
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  #4518  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 8:17 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I think headhorse is a time traveller from 1994 because those are the exact same things I would have expected to hear from random CJOB callers back then.

But that said, the criticisms are fair. TNS is unarguably inward-looking and like it or not, it is the recipient of public subsidies in the form of the TIF and a fairly significant lease from a provincial crown corporation. Now I suppose one could argue that anyone is eligible for the TIF and it isn't a special favour to TNSE, but it's a subsidy just the same.

Personally I don't mind the skywalk element because as someone who spends most days in downtown Winnipeg I value the comfort and convenience that skywalks bring, even if they aren't necessarily in keeping with urbanist dogma.

But all that being said I still think it's a great project and on the whole one that is worth the relatively minor amount of public dollars going into the entire project's costs.
Yes, a relatively small amount of public dollars, I think less than $20 mil, has gone to this. Over $400 mil of private dollars is going into the project however. When you count the tax income generated from this in just the construction alone it more then accounts for the investment put in. After that I believe it was determined that the hotel lot would generate $16 million a year in taxes alone. So a $20 million dollar investment pays for itself in 2-3 year and then generates another$16-32 million a year after that? I'll support that investment all day.
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  #4519  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 8:20 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Originally Posted by WpG_GuY View Post
I see the public funds as an investment, 3.5% or 17M is a small investment for spawning 500 million in new private sector development. TN could have build this project with a seemingly underwhelming plaza for private use only, instead the city gains a beautiful new asset that will only enhance the livability of the downtown and we dont know what future developments will ride the coattails of this and all the other new developments downtown and in the SHED. The project as a whole pay dividends in many other ways, it creates jobs; New shops, restaurants, retail, hotel, construction. The food hall will allow young chefs to become entrepreneurs and start a business at a fraction of the startup costs of venturing out on their own (if it's based off other successful food hall models as suggested). I recall this same argument about public funds with the MTS Centre. Over 3 billion in redevelopment around the arena has been generated since the jets return.
I can personally attest to how the MTS Centre has had a significant impact on my life. Some of my best experiences and memories in life have come out of that facility, From seeing my favourite artists in concert to bonding with family and friends over a dinner and hockey game to the quality of entertainment shows that have enhanced the overall arts and cultural options the city has to offer. That's a return on a quality of life investment i can be forever grateful for to Truth North, the Chipmans and the three levels of government that had the foresight to invest in the future of Winnipeg and not just another road paved and pot hole filled.
How do I give you all the up votes?
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  #4520  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 8:35 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Biffs slacking... NEXT PAGE!!!

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