Winnipeg Construction IX

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by Bdog

This. I've always found it a bit strange the hate Dollarama gets being on Portage. It's always active, and is quite handy for those living/working downtown. I sometimes wonder how many people here have actually visited urban cities downtowns. Like you said, There are several Dollaramas in downtown Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Most of them are in 2 or 3 storey buildings, and many are on main drags like Yonge or Ste Catherines. In fact, most of the buildings along those urban stretches of downtowns are 2 or 3 storeys.

I don’t hate any of them. I just think they need to NOT look like cheap.
The dollar tree or whatever it is beside the old Price Choppers store which is now a GT. But it’s got a face lift ( the dollar tree ) and it looks really posh for a discount store. If all the discount stores just did that downtown it would make a world of s difference.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

I wonder how many people here make a point of trying to shop at the Bay downtown.

My wife and I bought stuff there on Monday, so they should be fine for another couple of months.

On a serious note, we both did notice that there was significantly more stock than there was the last time we were there (about 3 months ago). Could this be pointing to increased traffic?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

On a serious note, we both did notice that there was significantly more stock than there was the last time we were there (about 3 months ago). Could this be pointing to increased traffic?

Doubtful. There are always seasonal blips in inventory, but the long term trend that I've observed having been a regular shopper there for 20 years is very clear... it has been going through a somewhat slow but steady decline in all respects.

[bryanscott]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

I wonder how many people here make a point of trying to shop at the Bay downtown.

Christmas shopping at The Bay Downtown is the cat's pajama's. In and out in ten minutes; not another soul in sight. It's extremely efficient.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Bdog

This. I've always found it a bit strange the hate Dollarama gets being on Portage. It's always active, and is quite handy for those living/working downtown. I sometimes wonder how many people here have actually visited urban cities downtowns. Like you said, There are several Dollaramas in downtown Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Most of them are in 2 or 3 storey buildings, and many are on main drags like Yonge or Ste Catherines. In fact, most of the buildings along those urban stretches of downtowns are 2 or 3 storeys.

There's a distinction between a dollarama being located within store front districts next to apple store, and holt renfrews, and simons amongst dense shopping districts in Toronto and Montreal vs being nestled next to dollar tree and giant tiger and being the only type of retail around.

[Urban recluse]

That's just it: there needs to be a mixture of higher end retail too.

[CoryB]

The piece people are missing with the Portage Ave Dollarama is that the building replaced long abandoned store fronts at a time that almost nothing was happening downtown. It brought a modern Shopper Drug Mart, a clothing store and if I remember right one other retailer to a dead section of downtown. It was a true victory at the time bring life back to what had long been a dead block.

In terms of downtown today, I think getting a permanent solution to the south side between Fort and Garry is a much higher priority. It would also be nice to see some of the wholes between the arena and Memorial filled in. Once downtown gets some true momentum happening the street level Dollarama issue will go away on its own.

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

That's just it: there needs to be a mixture of higher end retail too.

The problem isn't high-end vs. low-end. It's high-end vs. mainstream.

Early on in the Fort Garry Place mall it was filled with high-end boutiques. Which is probably why it emptied out. With nothing that the average person wanted, even people who lived in the building stopped visiting.

*Outside* the mall they had the grocery store, chocolate/gift shop, restaurant and bank machine. That area was always busy, while the mall was just useless. I have to wonder what would have happened if those were put into the mall instead. But they wouldn't have fit the marble column and gold trim décor.

Dollar stores are successful on downtown Portage Avenue because they have customers. Because they have stuff lots of people want. You want more of the shops like Staples, The Source, etc. Higher-end than a Dollarama, but still mainstream.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by esquire

Doubtful. There are always seasonal blips in inventory, but the long term trend that I've observed having been a regular shopper there for 20 years is very clear... it has been going through a somewhat slow but steady decline in all respects.

That's the part that's hard to figure out. More and more people are living downtown and there is a large number of office workers downtown every day during the week. A combination of the two should translate to increased foot traffic for the Bay. I sure would hate to see Winnipeg lose this iconic location due to a lack of shoppers.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

That's the part that's hard to figure out. More and more people are living downtown and there is a large number of office workers downtown every day during the week. A combination of the two should translate to increased foot traffic for the Bay. I sure would hate to see Winnipeg lose this iconic location due to a lack of shoppers.

As I said, I've been shopping there on the regular for 20 years. I have not noticed any kind of meaningful upswing in the amount of foot traffic through there.

In some respects I think it's been in a bit of a downward spiral during that time. As the departments have shrunk or been eliminated, people probably don't go there quite as much anymore on the assumption that the store won't have what they're looking for.

If you go back to around 2000 or so before the Polo Park location opened, the downtown Bay was the one that had everything. The St. Vital/Kildonan Place/Unicity locations were a distant second place with only a minimal selection.

These days it's the Polo Park Bay location that dominates, St. Vital is probably a close second, and downtown is kind of what the Unicity one used to be... a bit of a satellite location that has the basics but not much else.

It's kind of funny, the store is surrounded by places filled with people... provincial government offices, Manitoba's biggest crown corporation's head office, a university, numerous highrise apartments, the head office of a major national corporation literally across the street, all kinds of law/accounting/other professional firms and yet it still feels almost abandoned and forlorn.

[Urban recluse]

The Bay's selling space needs to be renovated. It basically looks neglected, and people do not want to shop in that atmosphere. It is simply stale.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

That's the part that's hard to figure out. More and more people are living downtown and there is a large number of office workers downtown every day during the week. A combination of the two should translate to increased foot traffic for the Bay. I sure would hate to see Winnipeg lose this iconic location due to a lack of shoppers.

It isn't too hard to figure out. One of the big targets for downtown residents is young professionals without children. The young piece being the keyword as these are the same folks that would sooner hit up a website to order something that set foot inside a retail store. It is the same reason the dream of a downtown grocery store is dead, you can hit up a website and have groceries delivered to your apartment/condo without needing to venture to the store and use your time hunting down your items.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

The Bay's selling space needs to be renovated. It basically looks neglected, and people do not want to shop in that atmosphere. It is simply stale.

Nailed it.

And why they didn't continue with a grocery of some sort is baffling. It was expensive yet it was always busy. A definite money maker.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Nailed it.

And why they didn't continue with a grocery of some sort is baffling. It was expensive yet it was always busy. A definite money maker.

They did freshen up The Bay about 10-12 years ago, it was really the last time I ever saw it get anything other than bare essential maintenance. To my eyes it had virtually no effect on traffic levels.

[Urban recluse]

Freshening up like a little water on the face? It needs a radical makeover, unique lines of merchandise, marketing, etc.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by esquire

They did freshen up The Bay about 10-12 years ago, it was really the last time I ever saw it get anything other than bare essential maintenance. To my eyes it had virtually no effect on traffic levels.

They don't even do that anymore. The escalators have been nonoperational for at least 6 months, maybe a year?

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I don’t hate any of them. I just think they need to NOT look like cheap.
The dollar tree or whatever it is beside the old Price Choppers store which is now a GT. But it’s got a face lift ( the dollar tree ) and it looks really posh for a discount store. If all the discount stores just did that downtown it would make a world of s difference.

This is more about the landlord than anything. Dollar Tree is in a formerly massive space that was converted into a strip mall, and upgraded to match the other developments. Dollar Tree on Portage/Donald looks nice because of the building its in. Even the Dollarama at Seasons is noticeably nicer than most, because the developer wanted that area to look nicer.

Originally Posted by CoryB

The piece people are missing with the Portage Ave Dollarama is that the building replaced long abandoned store fronts at a time that almost nothing was happening downtown. It brought a modern Shopper Drug Mart, a clothing store and if I remember right one other retailer to a dead section of downtown. It was a true victory at the time bring life back to what had long been a dead block.

In terms of downtown today, I think getting a permanent solution to the south side between Fort and Garry is a much higher priority. It would also be nice to see some of the wholes between the arena and Memorial filled in. Once downtown gets some true momentum happening the street level Dollarama issue will go away on its own.

Exactly. There's so much vacancy that rents (and profit potential) are low right now. Momentum is shifting, so this may start to change soon.

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

The Bay's selling space needs to be renovated. It basically looks neglected, and people do not want to shop in that atmosphere. It is simply stale.

Yeah – this is the main issue. Most people assume the inventory is bad because they can't look past the horribly outdated, dirty interior. The Bay is going upmarket, and this location does not reflect that at all. Terrible atmosphere.

Originally Posted by CoryB

It isn't too hard to figure out. One of the big targets for downtown residents is young professionals without children. The young piece being the keyword as these are the same folks that would sooner hit up a website to order something that set foot inside a retail store. It is the same reason the dream of a downtown grocery store is dead, you can hit up a website and have groceries delivered to your apartment/condo without needing to venture to the store and use your time hunting down your items.

I'd disagree with it being young people not interested. The Bay is in the middle of a renaissance, and millennials are falling in love with it all over again. Their buyers have their finger on the pulse of hot brands, and their online/in-store integration is the best in the business. I'm 26 and fashion-forward, and love shopping at The Bay (in store or online) because the integration is so seamless. I think it's mostly about the experience of shopping at The Bay downtown is awful. They haven't even updated the signage, which speaks volumes.

Originally Posted by esquire

They did freshen up The Bay about 10-12 years ago, it was really the last time I ever saw it get anything other than bare essential maintenance. To my eyes it had virtually no effect on traffic levels.

It was pretty much just a fresh coat of paint and some new carpet. There's parts of the first 2 floors that have 30 year old ripped carpet still.

[Roger Strong]

That sounds like the latter days of Eaton's, when they just stopped doing maintenance.

[esquire]

^ HBC really hasn't put much money into any of its Winnipeg stores over the last 30 years... even the Polo Park location is basically still riding the coat-tails of the renovation that Sears did back in 2000 to turn it into a short-lived small-e 'eatons' location.

I think the downtown store received a significant upgrade around the time Portage Place opened (its last meaningful upgrade), but that was it. These days if the carpet rips, the only repairs are of the duct tape variety.

[buzzg]

^Yeah. HBC has been slowly renovating all of its stores, starting with the most prominent, and I've heard Polo is on the radar. As many have discussed here before, would make a lot of sense for them to reno and take over the old Sears space.