YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[connect2source]

Just booking a Europe trip in May and noticed LH 477 YVR-MUC will be operated by an A350-900! Very excited to fly on this, guess Lufthansa is only the second carrier after CX to fly the A359 into YVR, should be a great ride, heard the A350 is far more comfy than most Dream)liners.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Just booking a Europe trip in May and noticed LH 477 YVR-MUC will be operated by an A350-900! Very excited to fly on this, guess Lufthansa is only the second carrier after CX to fly the A359 into YVR, should be a great ride, heard the A350 is far more comfy than most Dream)liners.

Third! CI has been flying them to TPE for a few months now.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by nname

- CZ will swap the equipment for the YVR-CAN route from 77W to "78W" (their brand new 787-9) effective July 1.

Surprisingly the CZ 789 Vs their 77W is only a net difference of 9 seats so still a huge capacity upgrade over summer 17' despite the downguage.

A few other changes to YVR:

- Delta is sending a 737-900 from SEA this summer, kinda ridiculous to have such a large aircraft running such a short route. I'd prefer to see upped frequencies but oh well, I guess things are getting really jammed at SEA.

- AC is changing it YVR-MCO from 763 to a 319, so a big cut in capacity with no increase in frequencies. Either this route was getting killed or there are some frequency adds to come. The real news story here is yet another 767 Rouge lost to YVR. I really hope we can hold on to a few or DUB and NGO might be in trouble.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Surprisingly the CZ 789 Vs their 77W is only a net difference of 9 seats so still a huge capacity upgrade over summer 17' despite the downguage.

A few other changes to YVR:

- Delta is sending a 737-900 from SEA this summer, kinda ridiculous to have such a large aircraft running such a short route. I'd prefer to see upped frequencies but oh well, I guess things are getting really jammed at SEA.

- AC is changing it YVR-MCO from 763 to a 319, so a big cut in capacity with no increase in frequencies. Either this route was getting killed or there are some frequency adds to come. The real news story here is yet another 767 Rouge lost to YVR. I really hope we can hold on to a few or DUB and NGO might be in trouble.

The CZ 789 config is way less premium heavy than their 77W. No F and a smaller J. Probably a better fit for the YVR market.

DL is maintaining 7 daily to SEA including the 739. When they first added the 739 they had dropped to 5 daily... subsequently back to 7 now. It will take longer to embark and disembark than the actual flight time!

I think the rouge 763 for winter flying was too big for Western Canada. Maybe other than Hawaii.
Don’t forget airlines shuffle aircraft based on seasons. Every year AC was flipping their E90s east and west. It was hard to keep up.
Definitely the rouge 763s are gone next winter. Tbh I’d choose mainline product over rouge anyday so good riddance! So far there hasn’t been any negative capacity except MCO. Overall there is a large increase in the number of seats this upcoming winter for leisure flights out of YVR.

It’s very possible AC may still base a rouge 763 or two at YVR in summer 2019. Otherwise DUB would most likely have to move to mainline. As for NGO? Perhaps that goes mainline as well... maybe one of the last remaining mainline 763 routes, maybe one of the new 330 routes or it gets cut altogether!?

[casper]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

- Delta is sending a 737-900 from SEA this summer, kinda ridiculous to have such a large aircraft running such a short route. I'd prefer to see upped frequencies but oh well, I guess things are getting really jammed at SEA.

I was on the late night Alaska 737 into YVR from SEA about 6 weeks ago. Under 1/3 full. Not certain if that was a weird night with such a small load or if it is typical. They had to do the announcement that for weight and balance and due to the light loads you had to take your assigned seats. There were a few passengers connecting on to the midnight departures to Asia.

I think these 737 on this route are to position aircraft.

[CareerShow]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Surprisingly the CZ 789 Vs their 77W is only a net difference of 9 seats so still a huge capacity upgrade over summer 17' despite the downguage.

A few other changes to YVR:

- Delta is sending a 737-900 from SEA this summer, kinda ridiculous to have such a large aircraft running such a short route. I'd prefer to see upped frequencies but oh well, I guess things are getting really jammed at SEA.

- AC is changing it YVR-MCO from 763 to a 319, so a big cut in capacity with no increase in frequencies. Either this route was getting killed or there are some frequency adds to come. The real news story here is yet another 767 Rouge lost to YVR. I really hope we can hold on to a few or DUB and NGO might be in trouble.

The less Rouge the better for passengers. Its nice to see AC deemed mainline a better fit for YVR. Don't forget that just a few years back even SFO and LAX had been "rouged" until the backlash. This will make for a far better passenger experience on the mainline aircraft.

I could see NGO being dropped, as it seems the route hasn't been doing all that well. KIX is supposedly mainline for the S19 season, and I could see Dublin being mainlined in S19 as well, rotating thru YUL or YYZ with a a333, or a 788 perhaps. All in all, the loss of a route compared to the number of mainlined routes, both shorthaul and longhaul is worth it i believe.

[nname]

Originally Posted by CareerShow

The less Rouge the better for passengers. Its nice to see AC deemed mainline a better fit for YVR. Don't forget that just a few years back even SFO and LAX had been "rouged" until the backlash. This will make for a far better passenger experience on the mainline aircraft.

Probably not the backlash, but they got what they wanted for the route with Rouge, which is taking the market leader away from AS. In fact, it did so well that it squeeze AS out of the market completely. Since the Rouge fleet is limited, there is no need to "waste" those frames on the market that's already firmly theirs.

With or without Rouge base, I can see KIX and DUB become mainline eventually. AC now seems to mostly deploy Rouge to seasonal routes with 3 or 4 weekly flights or less. KIX and DUB should be mature enough to warrant mainline service. Again, with limited frames of 25, there's no point of wasting those on established routes when they can send them out to explore new destinations.

With Rouge out of the market completely, I don't see AC will open any South American route out of YVR anytime soon... The best bet for YVR-South America is with Rouge IMO...

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by nname

With Rouge out of the market completely, I don't see AC will open any South American route out of YVR anytime soon... The best bet for YVR-South America is with Rouge IMO...

If Air Canada won't, are there any South American Airlines that would? Avianca ... etc ... ?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

If Air Canada won't, are there any South American Airlines that would? Avianca ... etc ... ?

Highly unlikely. BOG-YVR is out of reach for AV's narrowbodies, meaning they would need to send a widebody to make the route work. I don't see that happening. (remember, BOG airport is at 8,300ft, which severely restricts aircraft performance/range on departure)

Dont see Avianca Brazil on GRU-YVR either. Although it's the route that would make the most sense to South America, there are plenty of other North american cities they would launch ahead of YVR, as they only operate to MIA and JFK in North America.

Most likely the next AV destination in Canada will be BOG-YUL with an A319neo/A320neo. (Avianca Costa Rica -formerly LACSA- already operates SAL-YYZ)

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Highly unlikely. BOG-YVR is out of reach for AV's narrowbodies, meaning they would need to send a widebody to make the route work. I don't see that happening. (remember, BOG airport is at 8,300ft, which severely restricts aircraft performance/range on departure)

Dont see Avianca Brazil on GRU-YVR either. Although it's the route that would make the most sense to South America, there are plenty of other North american cities they would launch ahead of YVR, as they only operate to MIA and JFK in North America.

Most likely the next AV destination in Canada will be BOG-YUL with an A319neo/A320neo. (Avianca Costa Rica -formerly LACSA- already operates SAL-YYZ)

A shame, esp given how much Craig Richmond wants YVR as a transfer hub between Asia and the Americas; both North and South

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

A shame, esp given how much Craig Richmond wants YVR as a transfer hub between Asia and the Americas; both North and South

Just because Craig wants something doesn't mean it will happen. It has to make financial sense, even after the incentives have come and gone. Right now, YVR-South America doesn't make financial sense. That might change one day......

Anyways, excluding to Japan, South America-Asia is faster via Europe and the middle east than YVR. So Craig is not only late to the ball game, but he's also cheering for the wrong team, so to speak....

"focus on your strengths, not your weaknesses"

[libtard]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Just because Craig wants something doesn't mean it will happen. It has to make financial sense, even after the incentives have come and gone. Right now, YVR-South America doesn't make financial sense. That might change one day......

Anyways, excluding to Japan, South America-Asia is faster via Europe and the middle east than YVR. So Craig is not only late to the ball game, but he's also cheering for the wrong team, so to speak....

"focus on your strengths, not your weaknesses"

Flights from UK and Spain especially are so cheap and direct to a city like Bogota compared to the gong show of travelling there from YVR

[Johnny Aussie]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before.

But why aren't there more flights from Vancouver to Latin America.

I know there are flights to MEX (by MEX I mean Mexico City Airport and not the country) and I know there are flights to sun destinations like CUN (Cancun) and Jamaica and Cuba and stuff. But why aren't there more direct flights to places like Peru or Brazil. I know two guys who work in the mining industry in Vancouver and have to travel regularly to Chile and Peru. Surely, there must be a market for direct flights. Especially as a transit stop between Asia and South America.

I'm pretty sure the CEO of YVR (Craig what's his name) has mentioned this being a goal. I've scrolled and scrolled but couldn't see this topic discussed. So again I apologise if it has been and I'm just too dumb to notice.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Sorry if this has been mentioned before.

But why aren't there more flights from Vancouver to Latin America.

I know there are flights to MEX (by MEX I mean Mexico City Airport and not the country) and I know there are flights to sun destinations like CUN (Cancun) and Jamaica and Cuba and stuff. But why aren't there more direct flights to places like Peru or Brazil. I know two guys who work in the mining industry in Vancouver and have to travel regularly to Chile and Peru. Surely, there must be a market for direct flights. Especially as a transit stop between Asia and South America.

I'm pretty sure the CEO of YVR (Craig what's his name) has mentioned this being a goal. I've scrolled and scrolled but couldn't see this topic discussed. So again I apologise if it has been and I'm just too dumb to notice.

Connecting Asia with South America via Vancouver I believe is richmonds goal. So I would assume eventually cities in South America will be connected

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Just because Craig wants something doesn't mean it will happen. It has to make financial sense, even after the incentives have come and gone. Right now, YVR-South America doesn't make financial sense. That might change one day......

Anyways, excluding to Japan, South America-Asia is faster via Europe and the middle east than YVR. So Craig is not only late to the ball game, but he's also cheering for the wrong team, so to speak....

"focus on your strengths, not your weaknesses"

Checking the air miles calculator, I think you are partly right , and partly not. From much of China, South America is closer via Europe and Dubai, esp GRU and GIG ...eastern South America.
But from Northeast Asia, esp Japan, it is closer via Vancouver to Lima (CHA) and SCL. So there may be "strengths" in connections from Japan and Korea.
YVR may fit well as a connection hub to Lima and Santiago. From Japan, at least, this seems the case.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

But why aren't there more direct flights to places like Peru or Brazil. I know two guys who work in the mining industry in Vancouver and have to travel regularly to Chile and Peru. Surely, there must be a market for direct flights. Especially as a transit stop between Asia and South America.

Three fold.

1. Lack of O&D (although people keep saying it's increasing. That's good, as it is the first step in the right direction to launch flights)
2. YVR isn't well located to act as a connector hub for other North American destinations. And as mentioned, not well located for Brazil-Asia (ex. Japan) as well.
3. Aircraft utilization is atrocious on North America-South America flights, especially if you are going after connections to other continents. Aircraft routinely sit in South America for over 10, 12 hours, so that they are timed well on the return flights. AC's YYZ-GRU spends 10 hours in GRU. (same thing happens in JNB on the European carriers. North-South flights simply dont connect well with east-west flights)

I wrote about this on airliners last month I believe. I actually counted the ground time at GRU for a potential YVR-GRU-YVR flight by AC, timed to connect with the Asian arrivals and departures out of YVR. The plane would need to spend 18 hours on the ground at GRU to accommodate this. This is why you don't see many west coast-Brazil flights, even in the US.

Basically, you can throw all the money you want to AC, still doesn't look good when they can launch other routes with higher O&D and much better aircraft utilization. The only way you can do quick turn arounds is if you're not targeting connecting traffic per se, but rather O&D. This will need to increase for YVR to attract a Canadian carrier to South America or a South American carrier to YVR.

WS did specifically show YVR-SCL and YVR-LIM in their potential route map for the 787s. Who knows, maybe they will be the ones to launch South American ops out of YVR. I'm not holding my breathe, though. After all, they did have NAN and RAR on there as well....

Edit: Found my post on airliners.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1386117&hilit=thenoflyzone&start=50

Scroll down to reply 67.

[excel]

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Johnny was just trying to stir the pot on an already exhausted topic.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

But from Northeast Asia, esp Japan, it is closer via Vancouver to Lima (CHA) and SCL. So there may be "strengths" in connections from Japan and Korea.
YVR may fit well as a connection hub to Lima and Santiago. From Japan, at least, this seems the case.

Problem is, the O&D to LIM/SCL is far weaker than to Brazil.

Also, LAX is even better than YVR when it comes to SCL or LIM to Asia. And from Brazil to Japan, YYZ sits right on top of the great circle route. So YVR loses out, be it from western South America or eastern.

O&D, O&D, O&D.......

Originally Posted by excel

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Johnny was just trying to stir the pot on an already exhausted topic.

It's ok. Now trofirhen doesn't have to scroll back too much to find the relevant info.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

It's ok. Now trofirhen doesn't have to scroll back too much to find the relevant info.

Bang Bang!! You got me!! Oh well .... I tried. Now I give up. The campaign is lost. So be it. Bury me on Boot Hill.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

10. ORD 12.46 million
11.YVR 12.43 million

Looks like ORD is not going down without a fight.

Norwegian launched year round LGW-ORD a few days ago.
AA begins seasonal ORD-VCE in May
LO begins year round BUD-ORD in May.
ET is launching year round ADD-ORD in June.
NZ announced year round AKL-ORD starting November 30 (a bit late to help 2018 numbers, but still worth mentioning)

With the last two routes in that list, ORD will go from serving 4 continents to all 6 inhabited continents.