Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I think the goal is not necessarily remove the presence of buses entirely, but the reduction of bus stops on Wellington and relegating the function of boarding and disembarking onto other streets closer to the LRT stations. The proposed elimination of bus stops in front of Parliament would achieve the decluttering of most touristic part of the street. As I understood, the presence of STO bus stops there is also one of the the main obstacles for implementing bike tracks on Wellington, so maybe soon we may see the eventual narrowing of the street as proposed a few years back:

If we really want to make Wellington nicer then cars should be removed from Wellington since they clog it up the most especially during rush hour

[OtrainUser]

What community aren't they serving?[/QUOTE]

Answer: Gatineau residents

Well every time i take the STO i have to get off and walk to slater so i end up wasting time. I prefer the STO bus drop me off on Slater like the change would do since it would either put me closer to my destination or make my transfer a whole lot easier.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

What community aren't they serving?

Answer: Gatineau residents

Well every time i take the STO i have to get off and walk to slater so i end up wasting time. I prefer the STO bus drop me off on Slater like the change would do since it would either put me closer to my destination or make my transfer a whole lot easier.[/QUOTE]

That's quite true, but I don't believe that is what O-Town Hockey was referring to when talking about STO buses on Rideau.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

What is wrong with that pedestrian experience? In particular, what is wrong with it that is being caused by Ottawa and Gatineau *transit buses*?

.

That's an important nuance. I don't think there are any plans to cut back on the number of motorcoaches in front of Parliament. Which I'd say are just as big a source of pollution (airborne and visual) as OC Transpo and STO buses are.

[lrt's friend]

We need to make room for tour buses to line up in front of Parliament Hill since we long removed them from the hill itself.

But part of the problem with the plan for bus routing downtown relates to the fact that the city reduced the number of subway stations from 4 to 3. As a result, the stations no longer line up with the main bus routes coming downtown.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's an important nuance. I don't think there are any plans to cut back on the number of motorcoaches in front of Parliament. Which I'd say are just as big a source of pollution (airborne and visual) as OC Transpo and STO buses are.

I was answering Uhuniau

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's an important nuance. I don't think there are any plans to cut back on the number of motorcoaches in front of Parliament. Which I'd say are just as big a source of pollution (airborne and visual) as OC Transpo and STO buses are.

No, they are an even bigger source. A good portion of the OC Transpo fleet that operates on Wellington, at least for now, are hybrids. Tour buses are diesels. City buses are just passing through, at least when they can pass through the congestion of single-occupant private autos. The tour buses park on Wellington for protracted lengths of time; in the summer it's quite common for a wall of tour buses to obstruct the view from Wellington almost the entire block between Metcalfe and O'Connor.

[acottawa]

IMHO the tour buses should be on the other side of the street.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

IMHO the tour buses should be on the other side of the street.

Couldn't they find somewhere else for them in the immediate vicinity? Behind some of the buildings to the west of Parliament? Or maybe on Queen St or even Albert St?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Couldn't they find somewhere else for them in the immediate vicinity? Behind some of the buildings to the west of Parliament? Or maybe on Queen St or even Albert St?

They still have to load and unload and it is not going to be blocks away. A large portion of tour bus customers are seniors.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

If we really want to make Wellington nicer then cars should be removed from Wellington since they clog it up the most especially during rush hour

I agree. Remove all motor vehicles from Wellington between Bank and Elgin. Transit buses could run from Rideau on Elgin to Queen. Tour buses could have angle parking off of Vittoria St. If they are really woried about seniors, they could have little trams that run around Parliament Hill during tourist season.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I agree. Remove all motor vehicles from Wellington between Bank and Elgin. Transit buses could run from Rideau on Elgin to Queen. Tour buses could have angle parking off of Vittoria St. If they are really woried about seniors, they could have little trams that run around Parliament Hill during tourist season.

This sounds like a way to create serious traffic problems at the intersections where traffic is being diverted off of Wellington, namely Elgin and Bank. Bank in particular is not equipped to handle it. And transit will be totally clogged up competing with this diverted traffic. So, we build LRT and connecting buses on Queen are caught in grid lock.

I am looking forward to the concrete barriers that they put across Wellington to beautify the city.

My question, what purpose will a street serve if it isn't for traffic? I thought that Parliament Hill itself is where we are directing most tourists, not on the street.

[Mikeed]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's an important nuance. I don't think there are any plans to cut back on the number of motorcoaches in front of Parliament. Which I'd say are just as big a source of pollution (airborne and visual) as OC Transpo and STO buses are.

I've long had this vision of bringing back the Idea of having a mini-central plaza along Metcalfe which would reduce some of the clutter in the idea which I think is unbecoming of the Hill and will let Parliament bleed into the Core a little more.

If you extended the Plaza outside World Exchange down one block by demoing the really ugy yellow 1960s building that separates the parking lot from the world exchange plaza between Slater and Albert you could make a "public space of value" that goes from Queen to Slater - doesn't have to be a park but it should be a place to hang out and people watch. And will make moving up and down the core nicer because those sidewalks suck!

And then the question is what do you do with the building that use to house the Capital information Centre because it has architectureal value- everything else in this lines doesn't.

You could use this wide gap to widen the sidewalks, increase sun in the rather dense core, invite people from the hill into the Core and vis versa, you can improve the security buffer around the PMO so there isn't this omnipresent pileons where the motorcade/pm access is.

But ideally you'd close off Metcalfe at Queen and force an T intersection - and you can use this space for motorcoach drop off and pick up.

Hard to explain but one of these days I'll photoshop something lol

Would be perfect by co-incidence because the building that would foot this "public space of value" - basically an elongated and better plaza outside world exchange - is an all glass cube building which must might catch and reflect the Peace Tower and Parliament back into the Plaza.

Work with what we have to make an improved city. We don't want something like the National Mall in DC but we could have a reflecting public space that's kind of along the same lines.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I appreciate the concern for the aesthetic quality of downtown. However, I can't help but somewhat resent the apparent double standard whereby transit vehicles are dirty, disruptive, congestion-inducing and generally undesirable, but individual vehicles are not a concern on any level. The disconnect is all the more jarring when you consider that the appropriate comparison is not "is one bus more disruptive than one car" but rather "is one bus more disruptive than forty to sixty cars". If given the choice between a Wellington Street with 100 buses/hour in one lane per direction at peak and one with 40 000-60 000 cars requiring 20-30 lanes per direction, I think that the choice would be pretty clear.

That said, I acknowledge that the question of Wellington Street is less clear-cut. After all, the stated goal isn't to maintain the capacity of the street, but rather to improve the pedestrian experience of an iconic corridor. But often, the people concerned with the number of buses on Wellington stop their line of thinking short of a total reduction of vehicles on the street. If the City of Ottawa wanted to re-route buses in order to remove lanes from Wellington and generally improve its pedestrian realm, I'd actually be quite supportive. But as it is, removing buses from Wellington is not a move conceived for the benefit of transit riders, pedestrians or cyclists. In fact, it's not even of great benefit for drivers, who will now find themselves stuck behind turning the lines of buses waiting to turn onto/off of Bank, Kent, Queen, and Lyon.

So basically, if we're going to be removing buses out of a concern for Wellington's aesthetic well-being, then it remains a mystery to me why the people advocating for this change aren't also demanding a narrower street, wider sidewalks, and better a general reduction of the number of vehicles and lanes cluttering up other symbolic points nearby such as the National War Memorial or Rideau/Sussex.

For me the arguments are;

- Buses are taller then cars, so have a larger visual impact;
- They also tend to create a wall (be it one bus or a lineup), which again creates a visual impact;
- Buses are louder than cars in most cases.

What I want to see is more rapid-transit throughout the region thus making cars less necessary. As it stands, current transit plans will have little effect on transit ridership beyond rush-hour.

As for the loop-t-a-loop around Lyon Station, I'm not a fan. I would have preferred buses run down Booth and up Albert/Slater for the entire run through the CBD. Regardless, it's better than the status quo.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Ah, yes, yet again sacrifice transit service to make a tiny minority of sanctimonious and entitled cyclists slightly happier until their next outbreak of sanctimony and entitlement.

I would argue that moving the buses to what will be a relatively under-used Slater-Albert will actually keep STO riders closer to their Ontario origin/destination/transfer point and it will be faster than running down Wellington at rush hour.

[J.OT13]

Uhuniau; I'm trying to understand. Could you please give us a breakdown of why you think STO service is better on Wellington than Albert and Slater?

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

I would argue that moving the buses to what will be a relatively under-used Slater-Albert will actually keep STO riders closer to their Ontario origin/destination/transfer point and it will be faster than running down Wellington at rush hour.

As a Gatineau resident myself i agree with this 100%

[zzptichka]

How about bus/taxi-only Wellington between Elgin and Bank as in King street project in Toronto?

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

How about bus/taxi-only Wellington between Elgin and Bank as in King street project in Toronto?

Wellington makes no sense transit wise for myself and many Gatineau residents. Every time i get off the STO bus on Wellington to walk to Slater during morning rush hour, i would say 95% walk to Slater either to go to work or transfer while the rest either go to work on Wellington or stay on the bus to go to Rideau.

Even the Mayor of Gatineau said the changes for the STO will bring Gatineau residents closer to their destinations which is why i cant wait for the LRT to start. With 40% of STO users working in Ottawa it is imperative to make things easier and these route changes due to LRT make the most sense transit wise.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

I would argue that moving the buses to what will be a relatively under-used Slater-Albert will actually keep STO riders closer to their Ontario origin/destination/transfer point and it will be faster than running down Wellington at rush hour.

Sure, but it's not the removal of STO buses from Wellington that concerns me as much as the fetish that's been placed on removing OC Transpo ones, for BS supposedly aesthetic reasons.