Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

For all its seediness, it's the ever-present army of transit users' gazes that keep Rideau from being dangerous. There are always people at all hours to stare-shame potentially dangerous activity into submission or intervene if things truly get out of hand.

This times a zillion.

In many (too many!?) years in Ottawa, I've only seen two or three incidents on Rideau that caused me concern for the safety of anyone not directly involved in the incident. In each case, it was waiting bus passengers who intervened, documented the incident, and called the police, while at the same time, I'm guessing one or more transit operators was in the middle of doing the same thing.

This is another reason why it annoys the hell out of me that the powers that be at OC Transpo insisted on splitting up the single-hub model for local service within downtown and adjacent areas, and moved some local buses to Mackenzie King bridge.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

For all its seediness, it's the ever-present army of transit users' gazes that keep Rideau from being dangerous. There are always people at all hours to stare-shame potentially dangerous activity into submission or intervene if things truly get out of hand. Your kids are likely in greater danger crossing a street in genteel Champlain Park than they are waiting at 9:30pm at the Rideau bus stop because of this. Rideau may have its uncomfortable or unsavoury characters, but discomfort and danger are two different things.

And yes, I might one day be part of the transit battalion leaping to their defence, but the opportunity is unlikely to ever come up there.

I know... you're right.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

This times a zillion.

In many (too many!?) years in Ottawa, I've only seen two or three incidents on Rideau that caused me concern for the safety of anyone not directly involved in the incident. In each case, it was waiting bus passengers who intervened, documented the incident, and called the police, while at the same time, I'm guessing one or more transit operators was in the middle of doing the same thing.

This is another reason why it annoys the hell out of me that the powers that be at OC Transpo insisted on splitting up the single-hub model for local service within downtown and adjacent areas, and moved some local buses to Mackenzie King bridge.

Move the buses and transit riders to MacKenzie King (or indoors) so the street people are left alone on Rideau. This should help with safety.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Move the buses and transit riders to MacKenzie King (or indoors) so the street people are left alone on Rideau. This should help with safety.

In addition to having street people, who are people, Rideau also has all other kinds of people.

Mackenzie King is a wasteland for humans.

All local buses in the downtown core and serving the old streetcar suburbs and other inner urban communities should start, end, or pass through Rideau.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

In addition to having street people, who are people, Rideau also has all other kinds of people.

Mackenzie King is a wasteland for humans.

All local buses in the downtown core and serving the old streetcar suburbs and other inner urban communities should start, end, or pass through Rideau.

I knew STO was moving to Mackenzie King, but am I getting this straight: OC Transpo is moving its routes there too?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I knew STO was moving to Mackenzie King, but am I getting this straight: OC Transpo is moving its routes there too?

Many of the centre town bus routes are being moved to the bridge. This is why we are seeing routes meander through downtown because these routes must find another place to connect to the Confederation Line.

[AuxTown]

Wow, I didn't think my comment would be this controversial and I can't believe that any of you would suggest that Wellington is a place for smelly/noisy diesel buses to line up to shuttle people to and from Gatineau, very few of whom actually work or live on that street. But to clarify for you tender souls that I may have offended:

- I was referring to the vehicles and not the people. It's great to have pedestrians on Wellington but not at this expense. I know this ship sailed long ago but would have been awesome to have a tram system that covered the loop that is confederation boulevard, specifically something electric and maybe more aesthetically pleasing than our current fleet of vehicles.

- I'm not suggesting that the transit riders should not be downtown but that they should be moved to Slater and Albert once the LRT is completed. This is a 2 minute walk from Wellington and I guarantee is is closer to work/home for the vast majority of riders.

- Rideau should continue to have buses serving the area (market, Sandy Hill, lowertown, Vanier) but the current situation where they stick Gatineau buses that are not servicing the community at all (other than Rideau transfers) just creates unnecessary congestion. There are much better ways of reducing crime on Rideau street than placing a bunch of people there who didn't start their journey and won't end their journey there. Maybe with less bus traffic it would be a more comfortable place for cyclists and pedestrians alike.

- I was a long-time transit rider but no longer do as my job requires me to work at multiple locations and be on call for the hospital. It's difficult to explain to critically-ill patients that they have been waiting on me since I took the 85 to work today. I do take transit on Canada Day, to football games, and in just about every city that I have visited around the world.

Now, if you'll excuse me, my golden limo is waiting to take me to places where I don't have to be surrounded by bus riders and their awful stench

[J.OT13]

I agree with O-Town. Moving the STO to the Mackenzie Bridge will greatly relieve Rideau Street currently bombarded by endless lines of diesel spewing buses while OC Transpo Buses can continue to provide the eyes on the street safety feature.

This dates back to December, so unless things have changed dramatically, Rideau will continue to be served by several busy OC Transpo urban routes.


http://www.westsideaction.com/oc-transpo-bus-routes-downtown-2018-version/

[Aylmer]

I appreciate the concern for the aesthetic quality of downtown. However, I can't help but somewhat resent the apparent double standard whereby transit vehicles are dirty, disruptive, congestion-inducing and generally undesirable, but individual vehicles are not a concern on any level. The disconnect is all the more jarring when you consider that the appropriate comparison is not "is one bus more disruptive than one car" but rather "is one bus more disruptive than forty to sixty cars". If given the choice between a Wellington Street with 100 buses/hour in one lane per direction at peak and one with 40 000-60 000 cars requiring 20-30 lanes per direction, I think that the choice would be pretty clear.

That said, I acknowledge that the question of Wellington Street is less clear-cut. After all, the stated goal isn't to maintain the capacity of the street, but rather to improve the pedestrian experience of an iconic corridor. But often, the people concerned with the number of buses on Wellington stop their line of thinking short of a total reduction of vehicles on the street. If the City of Ottawa wanted to re-route buses in order to remove lanes from Wellington and generally improve its pedestrian realm, I'd actually be quite supportive. But as it is, removing buses from Wellington is not a move conceived for the benefit of transit riders, pedestrians or cyclists. In fact, it's not even of great benefit for drivers, who will now find themselves stuck behind turning the lines of buses waiting to turn onto/off of Bank, Kent, Queen, and Lyon.

So basically, if we're going to be removing buses out of a concern for Wellington's aesthetic well-being, then it remains a mystery to me why the people advocating for this change aren't also demanding a narrower street, wider sidewalks, and better a general reduction of the number of vehicles and lanes cluttering up other symbolic points nearby such as the National War Memorial or Rideau/Sussex.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I appreciate the concern for the aesthetic quality of downtown. However, I can't help but somewhat resent the apparent double standard whereby transit vehicles are dirty, disruptive, congestion-inducing and generally undesirable, but individual vehicles are not a concern on any level. The disconnect is all the more jarring when you consider that the appropriate comparison is not "is one bus more disruptive than one car" but rather "is one bus more disruptive than forty to sixty cars". If given the choice between a Wellington Street with 100 buses/hour in one lane per direction at peak and one with 40 000-60 000 cars requiring 20-30 lanes per direction, I think that the choice would be pretty clear.

That said, I acknowledge that the question of Wellington Street is less clear-cut. After all, the stated goal isn't to maintain the capacity of the street, but rather to improve the pedestrian experience of an iconic corridor. But often, the people concerned with the number of buses on Wellington stop their line of thinking short of a total reduction of vehicles on the street. If the City of Ottawa wanted to re-route buses in order to remove lanes from Wellington and generally improve its pedestrian realm, I'd actually be quite supportive. But as it is, removing buses from Wellington is not a move conceived for the benefit of transit riders, pedestrians or cyclists. In fact, it's not even of great benefit for drivers, who will now find themselves stuck behind turning the lines of buses waiting to turn onto/off of Bank, Kent, Queen, and Lyon.

So basically, if we're going to be removing buses out of a concern for Wellington's aesthetic well-being, then it remains a mystery to me why the people advocating for this change aren't also demanding a narrower street, wider sidewalks, and better a general reduction of the number of vehicles and lanes cluttering up other symbolic points nearby such as the National War Memorial or Rideau/Sussex.

Isn't the long-term goal to turn the northernmost vehicle lane into a bi-directional cycle track? Those are generally incompatible with bus stops without additional space for mitigation.

It does seem that the dialogue has been about removing the buses from Wellington for the sake of it, and not because it makes a lot of sense to move them into the downtown.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

- Rideau should continue to have buses serving the area (market, Sandy Hill, lowertown, Vanier)

Then it should also continue to have all the other central local buses - to the Glebe, OOS, OOE, Hintonboro, Elgin, etc. - because there are a lot of bus:bus connections to be made as well, despite OC Transpo's ongoing efforts to make those connections as inconvenient, time-wastey, and uncomfortable as possible.

but the current situation where they stick Gatineau buses that are not servicing the community at all (other than Rideau transfers)

What community aren't they serving?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I agree with O-Town. Moving the STO to the Mackenzie Bridge will greatly relieve Rideau Street currently bombarded by endless lines of diesel spewing buses while OC Transpo Buses can continue to provide the eyes on the street safety feature.

"Relieve" it of what?

This dates back to December, so unless things have changed dramatically, Rideau will continue to be served by several busy OC Transpo urban routes.

But not all of them. And that's a problem: this is making it harder to transfer from central-local bus to central-local bus, which is what the Rideau hub used to be very good at until OC Transpo started tinkering with the routes and cutting them up into uselessly short lengths, and making it impossible to conveniently transfer from one to the other, or to wait for all the local routes heading in the same general direction at one location.

The fixation on bus:LRT transfers is coming at the expense of making the bus system, on its own, less and less useful, even when the origin and destination of the trip make ZERO sense to include the LRT in it.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I appreciate the concern for the aesthetic quality of downtown. However, I can't help but somewhat resent the apparent double standard whereby transit vehicles are dirty, disruptive, congestion-inducing and generally undesirable, but individual vehicles are not a concern on any level. The disconnect is all the more jarring when you consider that the appropriate comparison is not "is one bus more disruptive than one car" but rather "is one bus more disruptive than forty to sixty cars". If given the choice between a Wellington Street with 100 buses/hour in one lane per direction at peak and one with 40 000-60 000 cars requiring 20-30 lanes per direction, I think that the choice would be pretty clear.

That said, I acknowledge that the question of Wellington Street is less clear-cut. After all, the stated goal isn't to maintain the capacity of the street, but rather to improve the pedestrian experience of an iconic corridor. But often, the people concerned with the number of buses on Wellington stop their line of thinking short of a total reduction of vehicles on the street. If the City of Ottawa wanted to re-route buses in order to remove lanes from Wellington and generally improve its pedestrian realm, I'd actually be quite supportive. But as it is, removing buses from Wellington is not a move conceived for the benefit of transit riders, pedestrians or cyclists. In fact, it's not even of great benefit for drivers, who will now find themselves stuck behind turning the lines of buses waiting to turn onto/off of Bank, Kent, Queen, and Lyon.

So basically, if we're going to be removing buses out of a concern for Wellington's aesthetic well-being, then it remains a mystery to me why the people advocating for this change aren't also demanding a narrower street, wider sidewalks, and better a general reduction of the number of vehicles and lanes cluttering up other symbolic points nearby such as the National War Memorial or Rideau/Sussex.

I think the goal is not necessarily remove the presence of buses entirely, but the reduction of bus stops on Wellington and relegating the function of boarding and disembarking onto other streets closer to the LRT stations. The proposed elimination of bus stops in front of Parliament would achieve the decluttering of most touristic part of the street. As I understood, the presence of STO bus stops there is also one of the the main obstacles for implementing bike tracks on Wellington, so maybe soon we may see the eventual narrowing of the street as proposed a few years back:

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

That said, I acknowledge that the question of Wellington Street is less clear-cut. After all, the stated goal isn't to maintain the capacity of the street, but rather to improve the pedestrian experience of an iconic corridor.

What is wrong with that pedestrian experience? In particular, what is wrong with it that is being caused by Ottawa and Gatineau *transit buses*?

I can't think of what this problem is, and I pedestrianize Wellington almost every single work day and many weekend ones.

I do not know what problem the fixation on removing transit from Wellington is trying to solve.

But as it is, removing buses from Wellington is not a move conceived for the benefit of transit riders, pedestrians or cyclists. In fact, it's not even of great benefit for drivers, who will now find themselves stuck behind turning the lines of buses waiting to turn onto/off of Bank, Kent, Queen, and Lyon.

It's all about the NCC's anti-transit, anti-bus fetish, which the city, especially under Watson, has swallowed whole. It's a 1970s mentality. It's baffling and frustrating, and will lead, yet again, to worse transit service within the core and inner city.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

- Rideau should continue to have buses serving the area (market, Sandy Hill, lowertown, Vanier) but the current situation where they stick Gatineau buses that are not servicing the community at all (other than Rideau transfers) just creates unnecessary congestion. There are much better ways of reducing crime on Rideau street than placing a bunch of people there who didn't start their journey and won't end their journey there. Maybe with less bus traffic it would be a more comfortable place for cyclists and pedestrians alike.

Ah, yes, yet again sacrifice transit service to make a tiny minority of sanctimonious and entitled cyclists slightly happier until their next outbreak of sanctimony and entitlement.

A balanced transportation system includes transit.

So, you would think, do "complete streets", but every street that has been "completed" in Ottawa lately has been done so by frigging around with transit service, removing shelters, and cutting bus:bus connections.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I think the goal is not necessarily remove the presence of buses entirely

That is the goal.

Since at least the 1990s, the NCC has wanted there to be NO buses on Wellington. Or, at least, no transit ones.

And the city has adopted that idiotic mindset, which is why straightforward and direct local bus service in the core is being replaced with wobbly routes, lots of left turns, and broken connections.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The proposed elimination of bus stops in front of Parliament would achieve the decluttering of most touristic part of the street.

Transit. Service. Isn't. "Clutter".

SWEAR.

[MarkR]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

That is the goal.

Since at least the 1990s, the NCC has wanted there to be NO buses on Wellington. Or, at least, no transit ones.

And the city has adopted that idiotic mindset, which is why straightforward and direct local bus service in the core is being replaced with wobbly routes, lots of left turns, and broken connections.

There is a precedent for this. Back when we had streetcars the Feds never wanted them to run along Wellington, and so Sparks became the main route through downtown.

(Perhaps the amount of clutter on Sparks caused by that was part of the impetus for making it a pedestrian mall only a few short years after streetcars were abolished.)

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Transit. Service. Isn't. "Clutter".

SWEAR.

Yes. It. Can. Be.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

But not all of them. And that's a problem: this is making it harder to transfer from central-local bus to central-local bus, which is what the Rideau hub used to be very good at until OC Transpo started tinkering with the routes and cutting them up into uselessly short lengths, and making it impossible to conveniently transfer from one to the other, or to wait for all the local routes heading in the same general direction at one location.

From the map posted above, it looks like the 5, 6, 7, 12, 14, 17 and 18 will continue to serve the Rideau Centre at Rideau Street.

Only the 11, 16 and 19 will serve the Mackenzie King Bridge instead.

And all of the above routes (except the 5 and 14) will serve Parliament station, so connections can be made there.