PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[eixample]

According to that article, Apple wants to build a customer service center. I don't think the Navy Yard would be a great option for that. I could be all wrong but that sounds like something they build in an exurb or someplace like the Lehigh Valley.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by eixample

According to that article, Apple wants to build a customer service center. I don't think the Navy Yard would be a great option for that. I could be all wrong but that sounds like something they build in an exurb or someplace like the Lehigh Valley.

if customer service, maybe the North Philly rail station

a tech center vs customer service are two completely different animals

I still would not rule out an Apple east in SY or the NY, but probably not anything the size of Amazon, but even 5-10% the size is substantial


On the extended BSL; why not develop a BRT line the runs through there (links to AT&T station) and also runs down 25th street and into UC, (31st street underground could be used to link with 30th and into and through the railyard) through the railyard, into the Art Museum, Pennsy cut (or just under the Eakins tunnel and down SG), down SG, then to De Ave, and back around to the NY (could also link the Pennovation complex etc.) Sort of job circulator and connector

would kill more birds with one stone and link key development centers, also give the NY a one seat ride from 30th

they could even look like this (not sure they would need to be autonomous though)

https://electrek.co/2017/10/30/trackless-electric-train-china/

[Nova08]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

if customer service, maybe the North Philly rail station

a tech center vs customer service are two completely different animals

I still would not rule out an Apple east in SY or the NY, but probably not anything the size of Amazon, but even 5-10% the size is substantial


On the extended BSL; why not develop a BRT line the runs through there (links to AT&T station) and also runs down 25th street and into UC, (31st street underground could be used to link with 30th and into and through the railyard) through the railyard, into the Art Museum, Pennsy cut (or just under the Eakins tunnel and down SG), down SG, then to De Ave, and back around to the NY (could also link the Pennovation complex etc.) Sort of job circulator and connector

A bit smaller scale than what you suggest, but there is already a free Navy Yard shuttle.

One route operates on a Navy Yard loop with 9 stops and a 10th at AT&T station.

The second operates between the Navy Yard and Center City with 7 stops around the Navy Yard, one next to Gallery/Jefferson, and one in Old City on 4th st. It runs every 10 minutes during rush hour and is frequently standing room only.

A year and a half ago PIDC received an award from DVRPC to acquire an additional bus for more frequent shuttle service. There are a total of 6 dedicated buses. As of that time they estimated the shuttles provided 1,800 passenger trips per day.

[Gonzo the Great]

Ok , I have another question . For those of you that feel my questions are in-appropreate ....
Just please do not respond ...... So here goes .

Has there ever been , or is there now any plans for that giant surface parking lot @ 22nd. &
Market .

It may be too far from the Comcast center but in the past I wondered if it was ever considered
for Comcast III .
Are there any current height restrictions for that location ....

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Gonzo the Great

Ok , I have another question . For those of you that feel my questions are in-appropreate ....
Just please do not respond ...... So here goes .

Has there ever been , or is there now any plans for that giant surface parking lot @ 22nd. &
Market .

It may be too far from the Comcast center but in the past I wondered if it was ever considered
for Comcast III .
Are there any current height restrictions for that location ....

I believe it's CMX-4. Not that it's too far, but will not give that "campus" field that Comcast is looking for. I think they will probably stick with Liberty Property Trust on any further development, especially the assemblage of properties on 19th and Arch Streets.

[hammersklavier]

22nd & Market is owned by PECO and is IIRC a Superfund site (it used to be home to some gas storage tanks). There hasn't been a development proposal floated for that site in some time.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Nova08

A bit smaller scale than what you suggest, but there is already a free Navy Yard shuttle.

One route operates on a Navy Yard loop with 9 stops and a 10th at AT&T station.

The second operates between the Navy Yard and Center City with 7 stops around the Navy Yard, one next to Gallery/Jefferson, and one in Old City on 4th st. It runs every 10 minutes during rush hour and is frequently standing room only.

A year and a half ago PIDC received an award from DVRPC to acquire an additional bus for more frequent shuttle service. There are a total of 6 dedicated buses. As of that time they estimated the shuttles provided 1,800 passenger trips per day.

I much smaller scale.

The difference between a continuous ride on a subway and transferring on to a bus is significant. Same reason people are excited they are opening the underground connection between the Blue line and 30th Street Station.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

22nd & Market is owned by PECO and is IIRC a Superfund site (it used to be home to some gas storage tanks). There hasn't been a development proposal floated for that site in some time.

Holy crap , I didn't know that location was a super fund site .


Thanks to both you and , iheartphilly for the information . I do not have access to city council , the planning gurus or the heart beat of
potential business moguls looking to buy property for ten cents on the dollar , hold it for a gazillion years and rape the city for outrageous
financial gain ...... ( why does that bring 8th.& Market to mine )...... Sorry , guess I just had a brain fart .
So my curiosity gets the better of me , but only because I live in the metro area and want the future to be something we can all be proud
of and brag about to those who might want to be part of a vibrant future .

[TechTalkGuy]

Once Comcast 3 is announced (as the tallest tower yet), I’d like to propose that JFK Boulevard to be renamed; "Comcast Way".

[Macedonia is Greek]

Originally Posted by Parkway

There is a compelling argument that pre-k is at least as important for future success as more money for K-12. If children are behind on critical skills by the time they hit kindergarten you can give 10th grade all the money you want but it's going to be nearly impossible for those children to catch up to their suburban piers.

So I am not against pre K by any means but I would have loved it more if it where universal, for all parents in the city. Which is only fair . At any rate in one of Malcom gladwells books. I think (The outliers) he explains that most children,no matter race or socioeconomic status preform at very similar levels in school and life in general up to the fourth grade. furthermore he explains that the poorer kids typically fall behind the summer between 3rd and 4th grade. So I think the pre k was done with the parents more in mind then the children.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Macedonia is Greek

So I am not against pre K by any means but I would have loved it more if it where universal, for all parents in the city. Which is only fair . At any rate in one of Malcom gladwells books. I think (The outliers) he explains that most children,no matter race or socioeconomic status preform at very similar levels in school and life in general up to the fourth grade. furthermore he explains that the poorer kids typically fall behind the summer between 3rd and 4th grade. So I think the pre k was done with the parents more in mind then the children.

Interesting analysis from the book. I wounder why the 3rd or 4th grade is the cut off point? Did the author go into that?

[volguus zildrohar]

Originally Posted by Parkway

Everything here is either completed, in progress, or planned with funding from ACT 89. Right now it looks like they are pushing KOP Rail for federal funds. As others have pointed out the feds probably won't fund two projects in a short period of time so it comes down to getting the city and state to figure out where to get the money.

Basically.

And don't look for a BSL extension happening before another major employer sets up shop in The Navy Yard or a major residential component comes there. That critical mass of humanity is the only way that any federal money is coming its way.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar

Basically.

And don't look for a BSL extension happening before another major employer sets up shop in The Navy Yard or a major residential component comes there. That critical mass of humanity is the only way that any federal money is coming its way.

Agreed. Honestly I don't even think we're close to the point that a BSL extension into the Navy Yard would be remotely financially prudent. There are so many worthwhile transportation projects I'd undertake before extending the BSL to the Navy Yard. It simply would not benefit that many people.

Even if we were to land a few more sizable businesses down there and started adding some residential buildings, there are far cheaper ways to handle this issue. I understand that it is a pain to take the BSL, transfer onto a shuttle and then head to the Navy Yard. But why not just focus on making that process more convenient and pleasant. Build a new entrance out of AT&T station that has multiple escalators taking passenger up to the western edge of Broad Street adjacent to FDR Park. Build a nice bus shelter there. Have the buses come every few minutes at rush hour and no less than every 10-15 minutes. It wouldn't be as convenient as a line going right into the Navy Yard, but it's be about 75% as convenient for about 1% of the cost.

[Gonzo the Great]

Just a little unrelated , unimportant side note .......

Past development threads seemed to roll over , or move on after about 10,000 posts .
The present thread is up over 17,000 with no end in sight .

So what dictates the criteria for moving on , or has that motivation been rendered obsolete with no reason to
create thread X .

VZ has been here longer than anyone else that I can recall , so maybe he can answer my curiosity .

[SJBadger]

^ Gonzo, you asked a similar question back in December of 2015. Pages 499 and 500 contain 3 responses from Summersm which should clarify the issue.(#9979, 9983 and 9997).

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by Gonzo the Great

Just a little unrelated , unimportant side note .......

Past development threads seemed to roll over , or move on after about 10,000 posts .
The present thread is up over 17,000 with no end in sight .

So what dictates the criteria for moving on , or has that motivation been rendered obsolete with no reason to
create thread X .

VZ has been here longer than anyone else that I can recall , so maybe he can answer my curiosity .

I think we might be getting a new thread at 1000 pages instead of 500. That's what I remember when the discussion came up maybe like 15 months or so ago.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by SJBadger

^ Gonzo, you asked a similar question back in December of 2015. Pages 499 and 500 contain 3 responses from Summersm which should clarify the issue.(#9979, 9983 and 9997).

Whoa there Badger dude . I didn't join in on the thread until Dec 2016 , not 2015 . In addition to that , I really don't remember what I had for breakfast this past Saturday let alone being able to answer year old questions .... but your sleuthing compelled
me to ask yet another question .... where do you find the time to search out posts from the stone age ..... and why .

PS ; jjv007 , thanks for your input .

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Agreed. Honestly I don't even think we're close to the point that a BSL extension into the Navy Yard would be remotely financially prudent. There are so many worthwhile transportation projects I'd undertake before extending the BSL to the Navy Yard. It simply would not benefit that many people.

Even if we were to land a few more sizable businesses down there and started adding some residential buildings, there are far cheaper ways to handle this issue. I understand that it is a pain to take the BSL, transfer onto a shuttle and then head to the Navy Yard. But why not just focus on making that process more convenient and pleasant. Build a new entrance out of AT&T station that has multiple escalators taking passenger up to the western edge of Broad Street adjacent to FDR Park. Build a nice bus shelter there. Have the buses come every few minutes at rush hour and no less than every 10-15 minutes. It wouldn't be as convenient as a line going right into the Navy Yard, but it's be about 75% as convenient for about 1% of the cost.

I dont disagree.

I'm 80% serious when I say I'd rather see them dig a spur to the actual, ya know, sports complex instead of dropping you off in the middle of 1/2 mile of parking lots. The walk to the Linc is close to 15 minutes, and about 10min each to CBP and Wells Fargo. Basically you get off at Broad and then have to walk 5-7 more blocks to the actual venues. It's not even remotely convenient - wish they would have figured out a better way to have done this years ago.

Though I suppose when/if these stadium get replaced in 40 years, they'll just build the new ones on the current lots and everything will be right next to the BSL entrance again. What goes around comes around?

[SJBadger]

^Sorry Gonzo!!
it was Outta Here....He must be your twin since you two look and sound so much alike!!!

[Nova08]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Agreed. Honestly I don't even think we're close to the point that a BSL extension into the Navy Yard would be remotely financially prudent. There are so many worthwhile transportation projects I'd undertake before extending the BSL to the Navy Yard. It simply would not benefit that many people.

Even if we were to land a few more sizable businesses down there and started adding some residential buildings, there are far cheaper ways to handle this issue. I understand that it is a pain to take the BSL, transfer onto a shuttle and then head to the Navy Yard. But why not just focus on making that process more convenient and pleasant. Build a new entrance out of AT&T station that has multiple escalators taking passenger up to the western edge of Broad Street adjacent to FDR Park. Build a nice bus shelter there. Have the buses come every few minutes at rush hour and no less than every 10-15 minutes. It wouldn't be as convenient as a line going right into the Navy Yard, but it's be about 75% as convenient for about 1% of the cost.

They are building a parkway style road from the west. They seem to have rebuilt Langley Ave to connect with League Island Blvd. I can only assume this is to create another entrance from 26th St. I believe this 2nd entrance from 26th exists but it is one where certain sections you wonder if you are driving through an active port and are even supposed to be there.

Building a better AT&T transfer might help, but I go back to the existing shuttle from Center City.

The current shuttle is blocked at 13 minutes from 10th/Filbert to the first NY stop and then 4 minutes to hit all of the NY stops. Runs every 10 minutes. Plus ~5 minutes of wait time for a total of 18-22 minutes. 95 traffic can obviously add to this.

The BSL does not run Express south to AT&T during the rush. The BSL is blocked at 11 minutes, running every 7 from City Hall to AT&T. The current NY Loop shuttle takes 5 minutes to the first stop and 11 minutes to hit all of the NY stops. It only runs every 20 minutes, which I agree is way too long. For argument's sake, let's say it ran every 8 minutes. The trip time is a bit higher 22-32 minutes, but a 3 seat ride.

Frankly if they aren't going to extend the BSL, I really think they are fine just keeping the shuttle status quo.