Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Hey y'all, I just saw a thing on a fare validator saying tap my card not my wallet.

Cool. and here's why:

TransLink introducing tap-and-go credit card payments across public transit
Kenneth Chan Mar 09, 2018 10:40 am

...
Beginning this spring, the public transit authority will be enabling credit card and smartphone payment on the Compass system.

This is intended as an additional option to the Compass Card, and provides tourists and infrequent transit users who do not have a Compass Card with great ease and flexibility with using public transit, as they can now simply tap and ride.

It means passengers can tap their contactless Visa or Mastercard credit card or smartphone mobile wallet on the fare gate and fare readers. And it could entice those who still rely on cash payment instead of the Compass Card towards this new form of cashless payment, which will reduce lineups at buses and ticket machines.
...

Credit card payment options and mobile wallet are only for single trips, and like the existing cash payment fare structure these new methods will not provide the discount offered when using stored value from a Compass Card.

For instance, a one-zone fare on Compass Card stored value is $2.20 while cash payment is $2.85.
...

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-credit-card-compass-card-mobile-wallet-2018

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Cool. and here's why:


http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-credit-card-compass-card-mobile-wallet-2018

I expect loads of calls about multiple charges to their debut and credit cards

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

I expect loads of calls about multiple charges to their debut and credit cards

Despite the fact that when it went live TransLink told people to take their Compass card out of their wallet as it'll try to read any scannable card (such as your drivers license) and make an error beep while not opening the gates.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

...As it is right now, with all the Tesla/Google crashes, it seems like a real bad idea for transit services to seriously consider it as an option.

While I'm on the side that says Tesla's "autopilot" isn't ready for prime time yet, I have to point out that there's a selective bias at play in the reporting of their problem. It's easy to say "look, an autopilot crash!", but what I'd really like to know is whether or not there are more autopilot crashes per driven mile than there are human-controlled crashes. I don't see anyone talking about that.

I'd be perfectly happy to accept imperfect autonomous vehicles if they perform substantially better than human drivers. It's not all that high a bar...

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Yeah I'm thinking that in conjunction with a button on the stop pole (kinda like one of those buttons in the bus to request a stop but outside the bus), or have a painted area on the sidewalk, in which the sensors on the bus would scan for people.

I wonder how many bus stops there are in Greater Vancouver. Must be in the thousands?

[nname]

Originally Posted by Dave2

I wonder how many bus stops there are in Greater Vancouver. Must be in the thousands?

There are 8731 active stops.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Will not be a problem at mass deployment, Automated vehicles still far safer.

If I had a dollar for every time some technophile has ever said "everything will work out just fine..."

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

While I'm on the side that says Tesla's "autopilot" isn't ready for prime time yet, I have to point out that there's a selective bias at play in the reporting of their problem. It's easy to say "look, an autopilot crash!", but what I'd really like to know is whether or not there are more autopilot crashes per driven mile than there are human-controlled crashes. I don't see anyone talking about that.

I'd be perfectly happy to accept imperfect autonomous vehicles if they perform substantially better than human drivers. It's not all that high a bar...

Good point. Though I have to wonder if people would be more or less forgiving towards a real driver, as opposed to something faceless like a corporation or a software glitch.

[Metro-One]

This is a lot of unnecessary infrastructure to maintain...

I still really think that bus drivers serve much ore of a purpose than simply driving the bus.

Skytrain can be automated because of its limited access (the psychology of safety), plentiful information available at stations, and presence of station attendants at most stations combined with the high chance that an attendant can access the train in an emergency at the next station. This sense of security would be impossible for many bus routes. Not to mention helping the disabled, elderly, parents with buggies, etc...

Then those who need help using the bike racks (seen this).

Then there are infrequent users and tourists / people from out of town who won't have al the Translink apps that rely quite heavily on help from bus drivers (such as asking what is the best stop to get off to access a certain location).

Just a few months ago watched a Japanese TV show about a guy who travels around the world and they came to Vancouver. He was using the buses and guess what, he had to ask the bus driver where to get off who then did so informing him that they had arrived at the stop.

I really feel that many on here on think about their own knowledge base and needs.

Let me just say, that outside of a bus operating between airport terminals or a coach rapid bus essentially acting as a train line accessing larger bus depots / access controlled stops I would not want to ride on a bus without a driver / attendant, especially in a strange city I am visiting.

[Xerx]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

I expect loads of calls about multiple charges to their debut and credit cards

I think that's still an issue in London where they've accepted contactless payments for a few years now. I think the best thing that Translink can do is just to educate people as much and as early as possible.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Despite the fact that when it went live TransLink told people to take their Compass card out of their wallet as it'll try to read any scannable card (such as your drivers license) and make an error beep while not opening the gates.

My current setup in my wallet is pretty reliable. I only get errors every so often, but it usually involves the machine lagging for a few seconds and returning an error.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Generally a good idea to move all your cards to one flap and the transit card to the other. Also makes it easier for the reader to not crap out on you.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Generally a good idea to move all your cards to one flap and the transit card to the other. Also makes it easier for the reader to not crap out on you.

Could I fashion a shield with something metallic, like aluminum foil?

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[TransitJack]

I love driving and welcome some of the safety improvements the technology is bringing us like adaptive cruise control, self emergency braking, lane swerve avoidance. but dread the day if I was told my car was only allowed to operate if it was set to drive itself.

Self driving cars on the freeway can actually help reduce traffic if the tech develops where they can link together and maximize benefits of speed and distance (acting more like a train than individual cars), but they don't totally address congestion problems.

When I see self steering car commercials like Cadillac recently I was surprised it was even allowed on the road already ( have our laws changed where you don't have to hold the wheel on such a car?)

As for buses and trucks, self driving... What about all the jobs these positions involve? Are we really willing to say goodbye to that many well-paid jobs in favour of automation?

I sound like an old geezer, but it seems like we are moving hella fast on some of these developments.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

A lot of these points are missing the whole point of automation, you are looking at it from the perspective that the norm will always be having drivers.

Things like safety etc. are much less of a problem on a ground level bus where you could just stop and open the doors at virtually any moment.

People with bikes don't need to use a rack on a driverless bus they cant just take it onto the bus like on a train (driverless buses could be larger and have more doors as well.)

In terms of people finding their way I am surprised that it seems like you haven't heard of "Google Maps". Virtually everyone has used it and it is pretty much universal in most cities in the Western World and its even available in numerous languages. If people really need more info than that then they could refer to lcd screens (an idea that many on this forum told me had little merit in this world of Google Maps and Smartphones )
. Even Minneapolis has them on their buses now ~ https://www.metrotransit.org/new-displays-allow-a-line-customers-to-plan-trips-as-they-ride

I'm not one of those people salivating over the concept of driverless anything, but I really think you guys are missing the point of automation and the fact that virtually all of the "problems" you list have simple, even elegant solutions. Sure people might miss a stop sometime but, they will learn just like when they would have missed a stop on a bus with a driver.

You're talking about the far future, where everything's automated and all the bugs have been worked out; we're talking about the near future, where your phone can't spot a bird in a photo and actually recognize it as a bird without human assistance. It's a LONG way from here to there, and we're still going to need staffed buses in the meantime.

Don't even think about bringing bikes on a bus, they crowd the SkyTrain enough as it is. And how does "automated" mean "larger?" If anything, it means "smaller" so that they can run more frequently, like Bdawe said.

Still easier (and easier on your data plan) to ask the driver/conductor; takes less time too, depending on reception. Technology isn't far along enough to do that part just yet.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

On this point you seem to have a different opinion dependent on whether or not it suits your argument. In terms of being larger, buses could indeed be wider and wouldn't need space for a driver etc. because an automated system can more easily control a large vehicle.

Exactly where have I contradicted myself? Unlike commuter/freight trains and streetcars that need drivers, metros operate with little to no obstacles in the way; it’s a pretty idiot-proof job (unless you fall asleep like the guy in NYC) that’s easy to automate.

On the other hand, buses often switch lanes and have to avoid sudden conflicts (cars, bikers, pedestrians, emergencies), which aren’t so easy to program for. Would a driverless bus be able to reroute around a car crash or building fire, or would it just sit there? Given that the 99 already has trouble doing just that, would a larger, wider bus even be able to fit through?

They detour, too; easy enough to ask a driver on the #22 if his/her bus is the one that goes straight down to Venables, but you’re not going to know with a modern autopilot until it takes the left-turn lane to Terminal instead. Can’t exactly hold the bus up at the stop for half a minute while you tap its LCD.

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

While you seem to think it is very distant until self driving buses etc. become mainstream, I wouldn't be so sure. I've worked on a lot of related technology first hand and things are much closer to being fully automated than most people realize.

Alright. All I'm saying is that there's bound to be plenty of teething issues that may or may not be fixed before the first mission to Mars.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

In terms of being larger, buses could indeed be wider and wouldn't need space for a driver etc. because an automated system can more easily control a large vehicle.

wider? how much wider do you think they can be? they barely fit in the lanes already. any wider and they will occupy 2 lanes of traffic. i suggest you take a look at the buses going down Granville Street and many other streets. look at lane widths in the CoV and then look at the width of the buses. they can not be wider; physically impossible unless streets/lanes are widened.

[Sheba]

Maybe he's dreaming of this:


Photo: Xinhua News