Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion - Page 908

VancouverOfTheFuture · #**18141** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 7:06 AM**

getting off would be no issue as it will stop where the pull is and would need GPS marked stops on a map; not hard to do as they have that for the most part already.

as Metro said, though, knowing if someone is waiting/vs walking is more difficult. or look at routes with multiple buses sharing a stop; someone steps back and the bus driver knows to go by. AI would have issues with detecting that.

it would most likely be unreliable enough requiring buses to stop at every stop just in case. maybe there could be a button at the bus stop that sends a signal to the next approaching bus? but then you could have issues with people just pushing buttons for fun as that is what people do.

Bdawe · #**18142** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 7:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave2

How would a driverless bus know when to stop to pick up passengers? Would it have to stop at every stop regardless of whether anyone was getting on or off?

It wouldn't be terribly difficult to rig up some sort of 'flag' that the bus could consistently recognize if it were sufficiently advanced for unattended operation over public roads.

Metro-One · #**18143** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 7:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdawe

It wouldn't be terribly difficult to rig up some sort of 'flag' that the bus could consistently recognize if it were sufficiently advanced for unattended operation over public roads.

This seems like something that would be quite finicky. It could be a butting that push for a selected bus route when you arrive, but then this could be a bit messy to implement at busier stops. Also it doesn't address the routes I mentioned that have no fixed stops for pick up.

Also at many many many stops (and on the bus) I see people asking the bus driver questions about stops / connections. A customer service element. Automation works for skytrain because this aspect of customer service can be done by attendants at the stations themselves (and if no attendant there train stations tend to have far more information on hand graphically than a bus stop, also train lines are easier to figure out than bus routes for most people, myself included).

Let me just say, travelling around the world, I am super comfortable on an automated train, but I would not have the same feeling on a bus, especially a local city bus (again, an access controlled rapid bus my be okay).

Migrant_Coconut · #**18144** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 9:54 AM**

Best I can see is the driver getting replaced with a conductor. A pair of eyeballs and an manual override should solve 99% of these problems - not to mention stop people from thinking they can fool the 'bot and not tap in.

Mac Write · #**18145** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 10:17 AM**

I think you would use a smart phone app to create your route and then just board the bus that comes and takes you to your destination. I think what might happen longer term is the bus would be more like a taxi, but would pickup up and drop off people going the same direction.

Think of the Detination Elevators and how you enter your floor your going to first then are directed to an elevator that is going to that floor along with others going to that floor.

Now if only we could fire the pilots for jet planes as the plane already can take-off, fly the route and land without any human intervention.

cganuelas1995 · #**18146** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 11:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Best I can see is the driver getting replaced with a conductor. A pair of eyeballs and an manual override should solve 99% of these problems - not to mention stop people from thinking they can fool the 'bot and not tap in.

Yeah I'm thinking that in conjunction with a button on the stop pole (kinda like one of those buttons in the bus to request a stop but outside the bus), or have a painted area on the sidewalk, in which the sensors on the bus would scan for people.

cganuelas1995 · #**18147** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 11:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

it would most likely be unreliable enough requiring buses to stop at every stop just in case. maybe there could be a button at the bus stop that sends a signal to the next approaching bus? but then you could have issues with people just pushing buttons for fun as that is what people do.

Perhaps it could be timed, because it doesn't take long for the average person to board the bus, as well as a bit more time added on after a person boards in case there is more than one person boarding. Or we could use sensors or an attendant.

And if TransLink is reading this, HINT HINT HINT.

Reecemartin · #**18148** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 3:30 PM**

[Deleted]

aberdeen5698 · #**18149** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 5:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Now if only we could fire the pilots for jet planes as the plane already can take-off, fly the route and land without any human intervention.

When a bus or train has a problem, it simply stops until attendants can be dispatched to deal with it. That's a little hard to do at 30,000 feet....

Bdawe · #**18150** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 6:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Best I can see is the driver getting replaced with a conductor. A pair of eyeballs and an manual override should solve 99% of these problems - not to mention stop people from thinking they can fool the 'bot and not tap in.

Which would I suppose be nice for those occasions, but negates a lot of the benefit of automation.

W/o labour operating costs, you could run buses like the skytrain - that is smaller vehicles running more frequently, which would be a huge boon to the usability of the system and thus ridership in all but the most well-trodden corridors

cganuelas1995 · #**18151** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 8:23 PM**

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-credit-card-compass-card-mobile-wallet-2018

I could see some problems with this, however. I have my compass card in my wallet, which has an ID window thingy and a flappy part, with a bit of separation from my credit and debit cards. I hope they test the system with this configuration and figure out a way to eliminate my compass card, both of my debit cards, and my credit card being charged, because heads would roll if I got quadruple charged. It's also a painus in the anus to take it out of the wallet.

Perhaps have a compass sensor on the farebox and enable the farebox to dispense disposable compass tickets and enable credit/debit card tapping on that and leave the validators for compass cards only.

Migrant_Coconut · #**18152** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 8:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdawe

Which would I suppose be nice for those occasions, but negates a lot of the benefit of automation.

I figure that since the conductor is supervising instead of directly driving, they don't need as high a salary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bdawe

W/o labour operating costs, you could run buses like the skytrain - that is smaller vehicles running more frequently, which would be a huge boon to the usability of the system and thus ridership in all but the most well-trodden corridors

Sure, but that'd be the far future - when not only are all the various problems with automation fixed, but TransLink also has enough spare cash to completely replace their trolley fleet with self-driving shuttle buses. As it is right now, with all the Tesla/Google crashes, it seems like a real bad idea for transit services to seriously consider it as an option.

WarrenC12 · #**18153** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 9:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sure, but that'd be the far future - when not only are all the various problems with automation fixed, but TransLink also has enough spare cash to completely replace their trolley fleet with self-driving shuttle buses. As it is right now, with all the Tesla/Google crashes, it seems like a real bad idea for transit services to seriously consider it as an option.

This is news to me. Got a link?

flipper316 · #**18154** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 9:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Perhaps it could be timed, because it doesn't take long for the average person to board the bus, as well as a bit more time added on after a person boards in case there is more than one person boarding. Or we could use sensors or an attendant.

And if TransLink is reading this, HINT HINT HINT.

So how is it saving any money with getting rid of drivers by replacing them with expensive sensors and hiring attendants? Ok there makes sense.

cganuelas1995 · #**18155** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 9:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I figure that since the conductor is supervising instead of directly driving, they don't need as high a salary.

Sure, but that'd be the far future - when not only are all the various problems with automation fixed, but TransLink also has enough spare cash to completely replace their trolley fleet with self-driving shuttle buses. As it is right now, with all the Tesla/Google crashes, it seems like a real bad idea for transit services to seriously consider it as an option.

The crashes only happen when 1) another car hits it or 2) a human takes control.

Migrant_Coconut · #**18156** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 9:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

The crashes only happen when 1) another car hits it or 2) a human takes control.

Which means you still need to keep your eyes on the road. Until every single car on the planet is fully automated, such crashes are likely to be common, so we still need a driver ready to take over.

Same logic behind surface rail: don't blame the idiots, just make your system idiot-proof.

cganuelas1995 · #**18157** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 9:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Same logic behind surface rail: don't blame the idiots, just make your system idiot-proof.

It's a good thing stupidity is painful, but if only it were 100% fatal in certain cases. Thanks, advances in medical science, keeping the stupid alive.

Reecemartin · #**18158** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 9:58 PM**

[Deleted]

Migrant_Coconut · #**18159** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 10:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

No need to have a driver to take over, if a car gets in a crash it can just stop.

But the driver can prevent the crash in the first place. In the case of the scenarios linked above, it would appear that you still need to keep your eyes on the road and your foot on the brake.

Or take the crash in Vegas; truck driver didn't see an automated bus, and backed up into it. Plenty of things robots aren't smart enough for just yet - a human driver would've either honked or reversed, but the computer wasn't programmed to do either.

cganuelas1995 · #**18160** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 10:33 PM**

Hey y'all, I just saw a thing on a fare validator saying tap my card not my wallet.