Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Alpine]

Why is it taking two years for the four new B-Lines to be launched (end of 2019)? Is it a matter of waiting for the buses to be manufactured and delivered?

[nname]

Originally Posted by Alpine

Why is it taking two years for the four new B-Lines to be launched (end of 2019)? Is it a matter of waiting for the buses to be manufactured and delivered?

Waiting for the bus, waiting for the road and sidewalk infrastructure (ie. to have enough space for bus stop for articulated bus), need to hire and train new drivers, need to design the route to please every municipalities, need to redesign local routes to feed into the B-Line (esp for Maple Ridge and Langley), and need to have time for the public consultation process, etc.

[GlassCity]

Surprising so much needs to go into it. It's just a frequent express bus. Especially in corridors like 41st Avenue and Fraser Highway that already have express buses of some sort.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by nname

need to hire and train new drivers

That's a big one. I think now is the time where a consortium of public transit agencies start collaborating with tech companies like Tesla and Google/Waymo to develop a driverless bus. I've heard that a majority of the costs of running the busses was actually paying the drivers when I entertained the idea of extending the nightbus network further into Richmond, Delta, and Surrey/Langely.

[MIPS]

I think now is the time where a consortium of public transit agencies start collaborating with tech companies like Tesla and Google/Waymo to develop a driverless bus.

I'm sure the unions will welcome that with open arms.

[Metro-One]

Call me crazy, but I feel still having an attendant on a bus is important for safety and customer service (I don’t know why but a bus feels far less secure than a train). Also, given that the bus is still running amongst general traffic accidents can still happen (other drivers / pedestrians causing them) which also feels like an important time to have an employee / representative present.

Let me just say, I am comfortable taking sky train at night, but I wouldn’t take a driverless night bus... unless it were a fully fledged rapid bus with full fare gate secure stations.

Then you would also get situations such as morons who don’t know how to use the bike racks on the front (which I have seen) and what not.

[Mac Write]

Having driverless buses would only help to increase service. Especially HandyDart for those of us who don't need help with loading/unloading).

What routes would be best to introduce driverless busses onto? With driver-less buses and HandyDarts, Translink could drastically improve transit service without firing or reducing the amount of hiring they do. A driverless fleet+bus drives driving buses would be a win win for everyone.

If we could have a 30% increase in transit by using driverless buses on top of the 10-year plan transit service might actually catch up to were is should have been had the 2001 parking spot levy and referendum went through (and also the additional 24 Mark II SkyTrain order).

HandyDart would be a perfect starting point for Driverless Handydarts. Then use drivers for the people who need assistance. People in scooters/wheelchairs for the most part could just drive into the HandyDart low floor and walk on's with aids or who don't need help can just walk on.

Driverless vehicles is going to revolutionize the world!

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by MIPS

I'm sure the unions will welcome that with open arms.

Didn't a transit operators union come to a compromise when the Scarborough RT was being built and they basically paid them to sit on the trains all day in case something went wrong?

[GlassCity]

It would be difficult when automated buses are first brought in, but you would think more and more would become driver free, maybe as they're phased out through retirement and stuff. Not sure how fare payment and other such logistics would work though.

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by MIPS

I'm sure the unions will welcome that with open arms.

You never know, maybe John Horgan will take a page out of Gordon Campbell/Christy Clark's book and do some union-busting. I can't see the BC NDP being as beholden to the public sector unions once STV is implemented in concert with the ban on union donations...lol

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Having driverless buses would only help to increase service. Especially HandyDart for those of us who don't need help with loading/unloading).

What routes would be best to introduce driverless busses onto? With driver-less buses and HandyDarts, Translink could drastically improve transit service without firing or reducing the amount of hiring they do. A driverless fleet+bus drives driving buses would be a win win for everyone.

If we could have a 30% increase in transit by using driverless buses on top of the 10-year plan transit service might actually catch up to were is should have been had the 2001 parking spot levy and referendum went through (and also the additional 24 Mark II SkyTrain order).

HandyDart would be a perfect starting point for Driverless Handydarts. Then use drivers for the people who need assistance. People in scooters/wheelchairs for the most part could just drive into the HandyDart low floor and walk on's with aids or who don't need help can just walk on.

Driverless vehicles is going to revolutionize the world!

Unless I'm wrong I believe the BC Liberals had some opposition to autonomous vehicles, something about protecting the taxicab industry. I don't know if the BC NDP would welcome self-driving cars or the testing thereof on B.C. roads with open arms; they might or they might not.

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

That's a big one. I think now is the time where a consortium of public transit agencies start collaborating with tech companies like Tesla and Google/Waymo to develop a driverless bus. I've heard that a majority of the costs of running the busses was actually paying the drivers when I entertained the idea of extending the nightbus network further into Richmond, Delta, and Surrey/Langely.

If anything, I'd just be happy with a few extra Owl trips on the 106/119, 110, 129, 130, 144, etc. (maybe not 116/134/136). There's so much of Burnaby that's out of reach of the N35/N9/N19

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Didn't a transit operators union come to a compromise when the Scarborough RT was being built and they basically paid them to sit on the trains all day in case something went wrong?

Yep. The Union simply refused to let the RT operate unless an operator was present, which defeats the primary purpose of the ICTS design by not being fully automatic and thus pushing up operating costs. The fleet had to be built with a laughably tiny cabin where on our Mark I's you would have the manual operator controls and high voltage switchgear.


Image courtesy of Ryan Flores


Image courtesy of Adam Hawkins/UrbanToronto

While the operator gets all the controls necessary to operate a Mk I in full manual (even a cup holder!) he almost never needs to touch anything besides the buttons to open and close the doors.

Edited: it was the Union, not the TTC.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Alpine

You never know, maybe John Horgan will take a page out of Gordon Campbell/Christy Clark's book and do some union-busting. I can't see the BC NDP being as beholden to the public sector unions once STV is implemented in concert with the ban on union donations...lol


Unless I'm wrong I believe the BC Liberals had some opposition to autonomous vehicles, something about protecting the taxicab industry. I don't know if the BC NDP would welcome self-driving cars or the testing thereof on B.C. roads with open arms; they might or they might not.

I wouldn't bet on anything happening soon...

B.C. NDP defends decision to delay ride-hailing services - Oct 17, 2017

B.C.’s Transportation Minister is defending the NDP’s plans to delay ride-hailing services like Uber until a new review is completed in the new year.

On Monday, the province announced that it had hired industry expert Dan Hara to consult with the taxi industry and craft a “made in B.C.” solution, with no implementation until at least next fall.

...

Trevena said the review would be sensitive to concerns of the ride sharing industry, but acknowledged it will focus on the existing taxi industry.



B.C. could cap surge pricing if companies like Uber and Lyft start operating there - Feb 15, 2018

A possible cap on surge pricing is one of 32 recommendations that have been put forward in a report on ride hailing by an all-party committee in B.C., and they could help to open the doors for services like Lyft and Uber.

The report is now in the hands of the provincial government, which will decide whether to allow ride hailing companies to operate.

...

The government remains concerned about impacts on the taxi industry.

Premier John Horgan seemed to throw cold water on ride-hailing coming any time soon in a Facebook Live interview with Global News on Wednesday,

“It is critically important that people understand that there is an existing industry that is feeding families and paying rent and paying mortgages and to have that undercut by having a new entrant that doesn’t have regulatory requirements wouldn’t be fair,” Horgan said.

Originally Posted by Alpine

If anything, I'd just be happy with a few extra Owl trips on the 106/119, 110, 129, 130, 144, etc. (maybe not 116/134/136). There's so much of Burnaby that's out of reach of the N35/N9/N19

I'd hope for a B-Line night route where existing B-Lines and the Skytrain lines are. I made a couple of suggestions to TransLink about night routes, including one for the 130 from Metrotown to Kootenay Loop. Currently most of the routes are about covering CoV, not the region as a whole.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Didn't a transit operators union come to a compromise when the Scarborough RT was being built and they basically paid them to sit on the trains all day in case something went wrong?

union insisted that someone needed to press the START button at each stop

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

union insisted that someone needed to press the START button at each stop

To be fair... when they introduced them, a fully automatic train was a novel and weird thing... people didn't trust them. SkyTrain wasn't 'trusted' in 1986 either. Since then, most metros with a dedicated ROW are built by default as driverless. Japan's Maglev will travel at 505km and be driverless when it's completed in 2027.

[xd_1771]

Some loosely related news from around the world. Just today: Delhi Metro Rail Corporation releases report with an express recommendation that linear motor propulsion be used on a new light metro line to be built in the city of Thiruvananthapuram. So much for an "oudated technology".

New DPR finds Light Metro ‘viable and socially justified’

New technology suggested in report will reduce costs

The Delhi Metro Rail Corporation’s (DMRC) reworked Detailed Project Report (DPR) for Light Metro in the cities of Thiruvananthapuram and Kozhikode has found the project ‘viable and socially justified’ and that it has the needed ridership.

The DPR was revised as per the parameters of Metro Rail Policy-2017 under the supervision of Principal Adviser, DMRC, E. Sreedharan and is awaiting the government’s nod since November 2017. The Financial Internal Rate of Return (FIRR), an indicator to measure return on investment, based on the revised costs and additional revenues, for Thiruvananthapuram has gone up to 7.24% and 8.66% for Kozhikode.

The reworked Economic Internal Rate of Return (EIRR), a tool for advocating investments, has gone up to 17.25% for the capital city’s project and 17.61% for Kozhikode. “It is comfortably above the datum base of 14% indicated in the Metro policy and the two projects are socially justified,” says the DPR.

Another significant change is the recommendation for the Linear Induction Motor (LIM) technology for the rolling stock to negotiate sharp curves up to 60 m and a steep gradient up to 6%. The use of LIM technology will reduce the axle load to 9 tonnes leading to about 4% savings in civil structures and track costs along the 35.12-km corridor in the two cities. There will be considerable savings in the operation and maintenance costs.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-...d-socially-justified/article22973608.ece

[MIPS]

I would only call it outdated if your daily reading consists of RailFortheValley.

[Dave2]

How would a driverless bus know when to stop to pick up passengers? Would it have to stop at every stop regardless of whether anyone was getting on or off?

[Spork]

Originally Posted by Dave2

How would a driverless bus know when to stop to pick up passengers? Would it have to stop at every stop regardless of whether anyone was getting on or off?

The same way a driverless car knows not to run over pedestrians - cameras or other sensors.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Spork

The same way a driverless car knows not to run over pedestrians - cameras or other sensors.

Would take some pretty good AI to differentiate weather or not someone on a sidewalk is waiting for a bus or not. Especially on some of the rural routes which don't even have official bus stops (you just wait at the end of your driveway).

Pedestrians walking in front of a bus of a vehicle on a road is quite different.

I think the only buses fit to be automatic would be buses such as the 555. Coach rapid bus style routes the nearly act as a train line.