Paradox Hotel (1151 W Georgia) | 188m | 67 Fl | Completed

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

anything is possible, but it depends on how much money people want to spend. anything can be bought-out/sold to someone else, but if the current branding isn't hurting business, then unless someone personally wants to change it, a business generally wont.

if it hasn't happened by now, though, i doubt it will happen in the near future. check back at the next US Election; that could motivate people.

Depending on how things shake out between now and then, it could well be way before that.

Way waaay before that.

Personally, I don't understand why they just don't go with 'The Turn'.
It may not have as much "prestige" or name/brand-recognition, but it definitely has none of the baggage.

However you may feel about him, personally or politically, I can not fathom how from a business-standpoint it serves them to have an affiliation to a brand that's so divisive and alienates probably anywhere close to (or more than) half your potential customer-base.

Just bite the bullet, pay the penalty and go with the name that people in the city already call it by. $5-6 (or even 10, if it goes that high) Million is pocket change by comparison for a hotel/residence of that stature that's selling units for upwards of $2-10 Million or more.

[mcminsen]

If it ever happens, I'd love to see the Trump Tower renamed the Arthur Erickson Tower. We already have the "Erickson" on False Creek so maybe the renamed tower should be his full name. There are probably a lot of people that hate the Trump Tower because of the name while having no idea that it's a tower that was designed by one of Vancouver's most famous architects.

[s211]

I was hoping I could find clarification of the Trump deal in the JV agreement, but no dice, at least as far as I could tell:

http://cdn1.i3investor.com/my/files/dfgs88n/2012/03/14/1455226820-1493791248.pdf

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by mcminsen

If it ever happens, I'd love to see the Trump Tower renamed the Arthur Erickson Tower. We already have the "Erickson" on False Creek so maybe the renamed tower should be his full name. There are probably a lot of people that hate the Trump Tower because of the name while having no idea that it's a tower that was designed by one of Vancouver's most famous architects.

Yes! That's a great idea, IMO. My question, though, would be:
as it is designed and built as a hotel, would it be called The Arthur Erickson Hotel? I rather think not, though it IS possible.
If Trump quit the scene, and another hotel chain (Marriott, whatever) took over, would it be The Marriott Erickson Hotel? The Erickson Marriott hotel? How would one rename it?

[mcminsen]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Yes! That's a great idea, IMO. My question, though, would be:
as it is designed and built as a hotel, would it be called The Arthur Erickson Hotel? I rather think not, though it IS possible.
If Trump quit the scene, and another hotel chain (Marriott, whatever) took over, would it be The Marriott Erickson Hotel? The Erickson Marriott hotel? How would one rename it?

Maybe the private residences could be called "The Residences at Arthur Erickson Tower" and the hotel could be called "The Mariott Hotel at Arthur Erickson Tower". Or whatever other hotel chain name.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by mcminsen

Maybe the private residences could be called "The Residences at Arthur Erickson Tower" and the hotel could be called "The Mariott Hotel at Arthur Erickson Tower". Or whatever other hotel chain name.

Great idea!

[jollyburger]

Next you should get the word trump removed the dictionary to really stick it to him.

[jlousa]

Except it's not going to happen so not sure why bring it up. You might not find the contract between Trump and Holborn, but I'm sure with some digging you can find the arrangement with a publicly traded company and a similar calibre hotel chain to give you an idea how much it would cost to get out of it. I'm betting that number is much closer to 20+ Million this early into the agreement.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Depending on how things shake out between now and then, it could well be way before that.

Way waaay before that.

Personally, I don't understand why they just don't go with 'The Turn'.
It may not have as much "prestige" or name/brand-recognition, but it definitely has none of the baggage.

However you may feel about him, personally or politically, I can not fathom how from a business-standpoint it serves them to have an affiliation to a brand that's so divisive and alienates probably anywhere close to (or more than) half your potential customer-base.

Just bite the bullet, pay the penalty and go with the name that people in the city already call it by. $5-6 (or even 10, if it goes that high) Million is pocket change by comparison for a hotel/residence of that stature that's selling units for upwards of $2-10 Million or more.

When they signed the agreement, the Trump brand stood for being over the top, premium, upscale, etc. Some would add tacky and plastered with gold leaf to the list. Not bad if your goal is to position the hotel at the top of the pecking order. I read somewhere that the Trump hotels usually price at a premium to the premium hotels in any given city but with generally lower occupancy rates.

What has happen over the last year and half is the brand has become tarnished. Hopefully there are some clauses that let them change to another banner on the hotel even if still managed by the same hotel firm.

[invisibleairwaves]

Originally Posted by casper

When they signed the agreement, the Trump brand stood for being over the top, premium, upscale, etc. Some would add tacky and plastered with gold leaf to the list. Not bad if your goal is to position the hotel at the top of the pecking order. I read somewhere that the Trump hotels usually price at a premium to the premium hotels in any given city but with generally lower occupancy rates.

What has happen over the last year and half is the brand has become tarnished. Hopefully there are some clauses that let them change to another banner on the hotel even if still managed by the same hotel firm.

When the agreement was signed, Trump was already making headlines with his racist birther nonsense and making noises about a presidential run. Obviously nobody knew exactly how bad things would get but it was an astoundingly poor bet at the time to stake millions on the Trump brand. You can skip back to page 84/85 in this thread and see the reactions when the deal was announced.

[Tommyrey]

Workers removed the Trump name from the only Trump-branded hotel in Latin America on Monday after the majority owner of the hotel in Panama City won a legal battle to eject the president’s company as its manager. Majority owner Orestes Fintiklis said he had won a weekslong legal battle with the Trump Organization, which he blames for the hotel’s declining revenue and low occupancy rates. For the past week, the 70-story building has been the scene of shoving matches between rival security guards, visits by police and power outages. It was the third time since Inauguration Day that the Trump brand came down from a hotel. WASHINGTON POST

[officedweller]

Hotels swap brands periodically, so eventually, when the management contract expires, it may change.

The former Delta Pinnacle is now the Marriott Pinnacle (though Marriott bought out Delta).
The former Ramada Renaissance is now the Pinnacle Hotel Harbourfront.
The former Mandarin Hotel is now the Metropolitan Hotel.
The former Le Meridien Hotel is now the Sutton Place Hotel.
The Sheraton Landmark Hotel became the Empire Landmark Hotel.

[bb1510]

If I recall correctly, Ritz Carlton has a restrictive covenant with Holborn regarding the hotel flags they can sign with. I'm assuming this would still be in place should they decide to pick a different operator.

Assuming all this information is true, this means that 1) Ritz Carlton doesn't see the Trump hotel brand as a competitor to them 2) Ritz Carlton still wants to enter the Vancouver market 3) Trump is the highest end five star hotel flag Holborn could sign with

Then again, they could go lower end with the hotel but I doubt they would do it. If I remember, there were rumours that this property would be a Marriott property when Ritz pulled out (which belongs to the Marriott International portfolio anyways)

[officedweller]

Thanks for the info.
They just got five stars from Forbes
- so, agreed, doubt they'd want to reduce their standing.

Rosewood Hotel Georgia, Trump and Four Seasons (what about the lawsuit?) are the only Forbes 5 star hotels in Vancouver.

Originally Posted by officedweller

"We are thrilled to welcome Trump International Hotel & Tower® Vancouver as one of our newest Five-Star award recipients..."
said Jerry Inzerillo, COO of @ForbesInspector.
https://twitter.com/trumpvancouver

Trump International Hotel & Tower® Vancouver Recognized With 2018 Forbes Five-Star Designation
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases...bes-five-star-designation-674906403.html

FIVE TRUMP HOTELS RECOGNIZED AS FORBES FIVE-STAR PROPERTIES
https://www.trumphotels.com/press-releas...c&utm_medium=email&utm_content=learnmore

Forbes' Vancouver ratings:
https://www.forbestravelguide.com/destinations/vancouver-canada

Rosewood Hotel Georgia, Trump and Four Seasons (what about the lawsuit?) are the only 5 star hotels.
Shangri-La, Sutton Place and Fairmont Pacific Rim are 4 star.
JW Marriott at the Parq not yet rated.

[idunno]

I'm very surprised that Four Seasons is included in the 5 star rating.

Four Seasons over the Pacific Rim? Really!?

[phesto]

Originally Posted by bb1510

If I recall correctly, Ritz Carlton has a restrictive covenant with Holborn regarding the hotel flags they can sign with. I'm assuming this would still be in place should they decide to pick a different operator.

Assuming all this information is true, this means that 1) Ritz Carlton doesn't see the Trump hotel brand as a competitor to them 2) Ritz Carlton still wants to enter the Vancouver market 3) Trump is the highest end five star hotel flag Holborn could sign with

Then again, they could go lower end with the hotel but I doubt they would do it. If I remember, there were rumours that this property would be a Marriott property when Ritz pulled out (which belongs to the Marriott International portfolio anyways)

Marriott (which owns the Ritz Carlton flag) did have a restrictive covenant on title to protect the Ritz. This was back around 2004/2005 but it would certainly have expired by now. There were actually 15-20 hotel brands that were on the RC, which to your point did greatly limited Holborn's options and was one of the reasons Trump was even approached in the first place (otherwise wouldn't have been a conventional choice for Vancouver).

[whatnext]

From today's Sun:

Trump Tower Vancouver residents warned to keep windows shut to ensure elevator works

Residents at one of downtown Vancouver’s most famous addresses were surprised to learn of a particular feature of modern highrise living.

Apparently, the elevators at the tony residences at the Trump Tower Vancouver — where buyers paid reportedly record-setting prices and the marketing trumpeted “the finest level of service, sophisticated details, and superior elements one expects from a Trump development” — can be affected by cold or windy weather.

A recent notice advises Trump Tower Vancouver residents to keep their windows and balcony doors shut during very frigid or gusty days, to ensure the elevators in the 63-storey building work properly...

...At least once last year, there was a shutdown where all three of the Trump Tower Vancouver residential building’s elevators stopped working for a period of time, according to an email from Trump Strata Vancouver management to a resident.

Strata fees paid by Trump Tower residents vary widely, according to the notice for last year’s AGM from the strata property management firm, with some monthly fees starting around $500, several between $1,000 and $2,000 a month, and the priciest units paying around $3,000 a month....

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/...t-with-alleged-construction-deficiencies

Bring on the lawsuits! I can't believe people actually pay $2k a month for condo maintenance fees, no matter how rich you are.

[WarrenC12]

I'm sure the maintenance fees are set per allotment, like every other strata. The rate per sf is just incredibly high.

As for the elevators, what a circus. Aren't buildings internally pressurized anyway? You're supposed to leave your front door closed so that system can work. What would your outer windows have to do with the internal elevator core?

[officedweller]

I suppose that if Vancouver had more tall buildings, the issue would be more widely known.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I suppose that if Vancouver had more tall buildings, the issue would be more widely known.

I've been in plenty of tall buildings in the 50-60 floor range and never heard or experienced this.