YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[deasine]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Why is mainline better than rouge?

Hard Product: Rouge is often without in flight entertainment and higher density configuration whereas Mainline has better seats with inflight entertainment.

[CareerShow]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Why is mainline better than rouge?

If you've ever flown on rouge, especially long haul you would understand. Horrific seat width and pitch, poor service from inexperienced and youthful flight attendants, and just overall less professional then mainline. Since both are the same price mainline offers a far superior product, this is far better.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by deasine

Hard Product: Rouge is often without in flight entertainment and higher density configuration whereas Mainline has better seats with inflight entertainment.

More complimentary items on long haul flights and better chance of better mileage accrual as well. Proper lie flat j class to KIX is a real winner.

[mezzanine]

better service (like free regular meals, alcoholic drinks, baggage allowance) mean a lot to a long TPAC flight. a full featured J -class (lie-flats) also will help with building sustainable revenue.

IMO I always felt bad about YVR-KIX being rouge'd as to me it's an important commercial area and metro area.

that being said, make no mistake - I'd rather have rouge service to a new area versus no service at all, but I'm glad KIX is mainline. Hopefully NGO remains.
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What's happening with rouge then? where are they being redeployed?

[Johnny Aussie]

Assuming Westjet maintains its YVR frequencies...

Perhaps AC will have a crack at LIH too.

YVR-Hawaii will have 10-11 flights per day:

HNL 28pw
OGG 28pw
KOA 11pw
LIH 7pw

And flights to Mexico will jump to 21 weekly.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

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What's happening with rouge then? where are they being redeployed?

Ohhhh..... what's stopping them from rouging most/all domestic flights?

Air Canada is looking to cut operating costs and defend against competition from upstart low-cost competitors by adding more planes to its Rouge fleet and flying them on regional routes within Canada.

Narrow-body Rouge planes that operate at lower cost could replace smaller regional aircraft operated by airline partners like Jazz on some routes.

For example, one of several flights per day on a popular route could be converted to an Airbus plane, industry analysts were told Friday.

Rouge aircraft are also available to compete if necessary with ultra low-cost carriers like WestJet's new Swoop subsidiary, Flair Airlines or Canada Jetlines.

"We needed to have the capability of introducing a lower-cost competitive vehicle, both on offence and on defence," Air Canada CEO Calin Rovinescu said during a conference call about its 2017 results.

The increased use of Rouge planes domestically is permitted under changes to the collective agreement with pilots negotiated last year.

Several more Rouge planes are being added this summer and once all Boeing 787s are delivered next year there will be no limit on the number or type of single-aisle planes that can be flown by Rouge.

Ben Smith, president of passenger airlines at Air Canada, said Rouge Airbus A320s and 321s can be converted to high density single class cabins or possibly another airplane type such as the Boeing 737 Max.

[Lancaster]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Ohhhh..... what's stopping them from rouging most/all domestic flights?

Flying Rouge on many domestic routes is a really exciting development for AC in my opinion. I believe you could see mainline focus on hub-hub and hub-spoke flying for connecting/business/premium economy passengers, and Rouge taking on point-point O&D flying that the market won't support as a connection through YUL, YYZ and YVR.

For instance - maybe YWG - YXE is better served as Rouge, or seasonal winter weekly flying from YWG to CUN, or seasonal YWG - YYT. Opens up a whole new market segment that their premium-focused mainline can't really do.

[CareerShow]

Originally Posted by Lancaster

Flying Rouge on many domestic routes is a really exciting development for AC in my opinion. I believe you could see mainline focus on hub-hub and hub-spoke flying for connecting/business/premium economy passengers, and Rouge taking on point-point O&D flying that the market won't support as a connection through YUL, YYZ and YVR.

For instance - maybe YWG - YXE is better served as Rouge, or seasonal winter weekly flying from YWG to CUN, or seasonal YWG - YYT. Opens up a whole new market segment that their premium-focused mainline can't really do.

For consumers this could be disasterous however. Not sure low cost carriers are really built for Canada. Rouge planes, much like Ryanair, easyjet etc. are Inhumane for flights over 2 hours for anyone over 5 foot 10. However, the nature of routes in Europe, Asia, and even the USA for low cost carriers focuses on short haul routes, with a maximum time of 2 hours for the most part. I'm Canada, most desired flights are over 4 hours, except for yyc and yeg. As a consumer however I think it's unfortunate mainline airlines are being forced to densify aircraft, making for a much more uncomfortable passenger experience. No question air travel in Canada is expensive, but the distances and nature of the population layout contribute heavily to this as well.

[casper]

Originally Posted by CareerShow

For consumers this could be disasterous however. Not sure low cost carriers are really built for Canada. Rouge planes, much like Ryanair, easyjet etc. are Inhumane for flights over 2 hours for anyone over 5 foot 10. However, the nature of routes in Europe, Asia, and even the USA for low cost carriers focuses on short haul routes, with a maximum time of 2 hours for the most part. I'm Canada, most desired flights are over 4 hours, except for yyc and yeg. As a consumer however I think it's unfortunate mainline airlines are being forced to densify aircraft, making for a much more uncomfortable passenger experience. No question air travel in Canada is expensive, but the distances and nature of the population layout contribute heavily to this as well.

I don't think we will Rouge on the Vancouver to Toronto route or the Calgary to Toronto route. Air Canada can make money selling business class on these route. They also have the problem that some of the aircraft coming off the trans-pacific flights would sit in YVR for nearly a day if they did not do something else with the aircraft.

Where we may see more Rouge are these routes where AC struggles to sell business class seats. Victoria to Toronto is such a route.

[SpongeG]

How are the air Canada flights to Australia? comfortable? I am going in july, gonna be a long flight

[Klazu]

I have never flown Rouge and wonder how bad it must be, since even the mainline has poor seating in Economy if you are on a HD plane. I really don't know what sets AC apart flow the US airlines in Skytrax stars, as I struggle to see a difference.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I have never flown Rouge and wonder how bad it must be, since even the mainline has poor seating in Economy if you are on a HD plane. I really don't know what sets AC apart flow the US airlines in Skytrax stars, as I struggle to see a difference.

Rouge is absolutely fine for 2-5 hour segments, recently flew Rouge YYZ-MIA, on an A319. Streaming service was great, fast, responsive with decent content, pitch was bearable, I'm only 5'7", I was able to order a hot business-class style meal off the BOB which was very tasty. Crew is younger and a little less polished but totally fine overall. Appearance of cabins vs mainline is better, there are new seats and larger bins.

I think was sets AC apart is the consistency of product. All mainline NB planes have almost the exact same cabins, IFE etc., in most US carriers it's luck of the draw, huge range in age, amenities IFE, style of seats etc..

[casper]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

How are the air Canada flights to Australia? comfortable? I am going in july, gonna be a long flight

In comparison to United I would pick AC. AC has been working hard on making their product more consistent with the US airlines. Still find it slightly better.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I have never flown Rouge and wonder how bad it must be, since even the mainline has poor seating in Economy if you are on a HD plane. I really don't know what sets AC apart flow the US airlines in Skytrax stars, as I struggle to see a difference.

I have only done Rouge between Vancouver and Las Vegas. Business seats in the front are the same as any other AC flight. The back is quite a bit tighter.

AC has individual seat back entertainment displays at every seat on everything the size of a CRJ900 or larger (excluding Rouge). This is quite unique in comparison to the US airlines. They have had nothing for years. Recently they have been adding wifi based entertainment.

The in flight buy on board is much better on AC that United or Delta or American.

Meals in business are much better on AC than US airlines.

Lounge access is more widely available on AC than US airlines to people traveling business or higher tiers of the frequent flyer program.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by casper

I have only done Rouge between Vancouver and Las Vegas. Business seats in the front are the same as any other AC flight. The back is quite a bit tighter.

AC has individual seat back entertainment displays at every seat on everything the size of a CRJ900 or larger (excluding Rouge). This is quite unique in comparison to the US airlines. They have had nothing for years. Recently they have been adding wifi based entertainment.

The in flight buy on board is much better on AC that United or Delta or American.

Meals in business are much better on AC than US airlines.

Lounge access is more widely available on AC than US airlines to people traveling business or higher tiers of the frequent flyer program.

I flew united on a a319 from FLL to ORD and it had absolutely nothing, no tvs nothing. It was a flight special similar to spirit airlines, no luggage except a personal item and no seat selection. Still not bad for $79USD incl taxes

[casper]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

I flew united on a a319 from FLL to ORD and it had absolutely nothing, no tvs nothing. It was a flight special similar to spirit airlines, no luggage except a personal item and no seat selection. Still not bad for $79USD incl taxes

Generally they don't have TVs on narrow body aircraft in the US. The few exceptions are JetBlue and some aircraft configured for International flights that happen to get used domestically.

The United buy on board is also hopeless. These boxes of junk food. At least AC food resembles real food.

[SpongeG]

i saw an airplane tonight at the terminal, it looked like a yellow gold circle with maybe a green palm tree on the tail with green writing on the body with a white body

anyone know what it could be? i couldn't get a good look at it

edit: maybe it was eva air? but its logo looked more of a solid yellow bacjkground

[Image removed as the original post does not contain the necessary credits]

[Orcair]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i saw an airplane tonight at the terminal, it looked like a yellow gold circle with maybe a green palm tree on the tail with green writing on the body with a white body

anyone know what it could be? i couldn't get a good look at it

Miami Air? Saudia? Iraq Airways? If not, could you tell if it was a wide-body (i.e. 777) or narrow-body (A320 or 737)?

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Now what remains to be seen is what will happen with PSP, PHX, LAS, MCO, NGO, DUB? DUB, PSP, PHX, LAS, MCO probably rotate through Eastern Canada. Perhaps NGO will get cut altogether?

Or rotate it with DUB plus new destination? HRB? CTS?? CJU??? or maybe a crack at LIM??

Since AC is also gradually replacing some matured TATL Rouge routes with B787 and A330... those Rouge 767s will need to go somewhere else....

[zahav]

Delta has added back the mid-day mainline flight to SEA (it had been showing in preliminary schedules a couple months back, but was revised to all Connection flights shortly after). It is operated by 737-900ER. YVR is definitely the 737-800 and -900 capital this summer!