Great Lakes Cities - Page 48

pj3000 · #**941** Posted **Feb 21, 2018, 9:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Cincinnati's topography and traditional built form is similar as well. Or is that not considered Appalachia?

not really sure what people consider it, other than Midwest. It may be considered the far edge of central or western Appalachia?

But yes, certainly similar to Pittsburgh, just not in northeastern Appalachia

MonkeyRonin · #**942** Posted **Feb 21, 2018, 9:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000

So like... Washington DC?

I get what you're saying... a lot of it sprang from the big expositions held in Chicago and St. Louis and maybe elsewhere in Midwestern cities. But that grand "monumentalism" is certainly found in DC and Philadelphia, and largely based on European grand boulevards.

DC is also a grand, planned city for sure, but based on an older model of that. It's narrow rowhouses, minor/non-existent setbacks, and narrow residential streets are of a clearly first-wave east coast urban typology (even if the city is actually a lot newer than its neighbours).

And Philadelphia is probably the most fine-grained city in America, a few early-20th city beautiful gestures aside (Ben Franklin Pkwy is really the only one I can even think of). This is just about the antithesis of Midwestern gigantism.

The North One · #**943** Posted **Feb 21, 2018, 10:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000

So like... Washington DC?

Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit and DC are the main cities that participated in the city beautification movement and thought of it as a civic virtue. Denver, Harrisburg, Madison and Des Moines did a little bit of it as well so I guess it's not reaching to say that it was mostly a midwest thing.

Buckeye Native 001 · #**944** Posted **Feb 21, 2018, 10:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Cincinnati's topography and traditional built form is similar as well. Or is that not considered Appalachia?

You can ask everyone living in the Tri-State if they think that Cincinnati is Midwestern, Southern or Appalachian and you still won't get a consensus.

Sun Belt · #**945** Posted **Feb 21, 2018, 11:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

You can ask everyone living in the Tri-State if they think that Cincinnati is Midwestern, Southern or Appalachian and you still won't get a consensus.

It's been a minute, but when I flew into Cincinnati and spent some time there, I was surprised to hear southern accents. Then I had to tell myself that, yep I'm along the Kentucky border and there it's a region where there is a mixing of the north and south.

Razor · #**946** Posted **Feb 22, 2018, 1:55 AM**

Thanks for posting those pics of Cleveland MayDay..That style was exactly what I was referring to in my earlier post about the style of buildings I love in when I visit U.S cities that developed earlier, andI know it's not just a Midwestern thing...WTF were architects thinking in the 50's and 60's when functional Brutalist or whatever you call it came in? anyways, different topic.

pj3000 · #**947** Posted **Feb 22, 2018, 4:43 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

DC is also a grand, planned city for sure, but based on an older model of that. It's narrow rowhouses, minor/non-existent setbacks, and narrow residential streets are of a clearly first-wave east coast urban typology (even if the city is actually a lot newer than its neighbours).

And Philadelphia is probably the most fine-grained city in America, a few early-20th city beautiful gestures aside (Ben Franklin Pkwy is really the only one I can even think of). This is just about the antithesis of Midwestern gigantism.

Yeah, I'm obviously aware of how the layouts/built density of cities like DC and Philly differ from many of those in the Midwest. It was more just just the "Midwestern monumentalism" term that I didn't quite get... (and still don't)... that I was wondering about. Explanations have ranged from "oversized, neoclassical architecture" to "Gilded Age" to "City Beautiful movement" to full descriptions of city layouts. If it just means that Midwestern cities are flatter, more spread out, with wider streets, and more grass, then ok... but that doesn't seem to be too monumental. Otherwise, I think you'll find that non-Midwestern cities also have neoclassical and art deco architecture, plazas, statues/monuments, boulevards, massive public works structures, etc. in spades.

And while Philadelphia is certainly one of the "most fine-grained" cities in the US, that is a most apt description for its core. Philadelphia had the first World's Fair (the Centennial Exhibition in 1876... well before Midwestern locales) and established Fairmount Park... which has all the "monumentalism", neoclassicism, broad tree-lined boulevards, arches, statues, gates, gardens, mansions, pillars, fountains, etc. that you could possibly desire.

See, I just don't really get how St. Louis (its core is quite densely built) might exhibit this monumentalism, yet Philly or Pittsburgh somehow do not?

Centropolis · #**948** Posted **Feb 22, 2018, 3:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000

See, I just don't really get how St. Louis (its core is quite densely built) might exhibit this monumentalism, yet Philly or Pittsburgh somehow do not?

not sure this is a blanket argument anyone is making, specifically.

Buckeye Native 001 · #**949** Posted **Feb 22, 2018, 3:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

It's been a minute, but when I flew into Cincinnati and spent some time there, I was surprised to hear southern accents. Then I had to tell myself that, yep I'm along the Kentucky border and there it's a region where there is a mixing of the north and south.

For people not familiar with the area, the fact that the main airport is in Kentucky seems to disorient a lot of out-of-towners.

pj3000 · #**950** Posted **Feb 22, 2018, 3:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centropolis

not sure this is a blanket argument anyone is making, specifically.

Yeah, probably not. I totally get what you were describing about large midewestern cities feeling like they were built in a grand manner... perhaps built with the capacity for millions more people than actually live there. That's an interesting observation... a certain optimism for growth and an overall elegance of layout in early city planning.

I just didn't get the Gilded Age monumentalism thing as being somehow of the Midwest or Great Lakes, because that flourished in cities outside of the Midwest at the same time and earlier.

Docere · #**951** Posted **Feb 23, 2018, 11:55 PM**

Toronto's Kensington Market strikes me as very "un-Midwestern." Though it's hard to really think of anything in North America quite like it.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6533192,-...vFQl8NufI1_eXAtf3FgJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6540557,-...wln_CIGECSINy70R6CuWg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6547272,-...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6554551,-...0Te0BPZzBpFs8M9qUkqIg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

jd3189 · #**952** Posted **Feb 24, 2018, 12:08 AM**

^^^ From those views, it reminds me of parts of Eastern Brooklyn and much of Queens. Very gritty and dense.

From what was mentioned before, The Quebec-Windsor corridor in Canada seems to share more with the Northeast in the US. Both are the major population areas of their countries where the largest city and capital are located.

Razor · #**953** Posted **Feb 24, 2018, 12:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189

^^^ From those views, it reminds me of parts of Eastern Brooklyn and much of Queens. Very gritty and dense.

From what was mentioned before, The Quebec-Windsor corridor in Canada seems to share more with the Northeast in the US. Both are the major population areas of their countries where the largest city and capital are located.

Yes, there are a lot of parallels there for sure.
18.0 million people (on the Canadian side) through a 1100 mile stretch..Enough to warrant a possible HSR which has been bandied around for quite some time. Ironically they call it the corridor, because of the existing VIA rail line.

dc_denizen · #**954** Posted **Feb 24, 2018, 1:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docere

Toronto's Kensington Market strikes me as very "un-Midwestern." Though it's hard to really think of anything in North America quite like it.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6533192,-...vFQl8NufI1_eXAtf3FgJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6540557,-...wln_CIGECSINy70R6CuWg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6547272,-...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6554551,-...0Te0BPZzBpFs8M9qUkqIg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

those that looks like Short north, columbus, not queens or brooklyn IMO.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9905175,...u06qlqPdU8UwNoL9FYsug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9836352,...Xc51AdYySbg5gEWj54pLQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9391897,...Ewe7HFn3Aaax-CkJoiUmQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Centropolis · #**955** Posted **Feb 24, 2018, 1:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yeah, probably not. I totally get what you were describing about large midewestern cities feeling like they were built in a grand manner... perhaps built with the capacity for millions more people than actually live there. That's an interesting observation... a certain optimism for growth and an overall elegance of layout in early city planning.

I just didn't get the Gilded Age monumentalism thing as being somehow of the Midwest or Great Lakes, because that flourished in cities outside of the Midwest at the same time and earlier.

i think it's a slightly of out of proportion gigantism, to steal a word that forumer kool maudit once used in reference to the great lakes cities.

they are kind of gangling, like graying teenage basketball players waiting to fill out with muscle.

Centropolis · #**956** Posted **Feb 24, 2018, 2:09 AM**

visittheloop.com

i pulled this over from a sort of parallel thread. this isn't a great lakes city, but we sort of decided in the twentieth century that we kind of wanted to be like that in st. louis around 1904.

monoliths and promise. midwesternism.

Docere · #**957** Posted **Feb 24, 2018, 2:40 AM**

Centropolis · #**958** Posted **Feb 24, 2018, 2:47 AM**

it's all tight on the street, which is satisfying, and the contrast is instructive. midwesternism is an early pulling away from the street and/or into the air.

softee · #**959** Posted **Feb 24, 2018, 3:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

those that looks like Short north, columbus, not queens or brooklyn IMO.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9905175,...u06qlqPdU8UwNoL9FYsug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9836352,...Xc51AdYySbg5gEWj54pLQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9391897,...Ewe7HFn3Aaax-CkJoiUmQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

You really think those two areas look alike? The Kensington Market area is far denser both structurally and in terms of population density. Short North looks spacious and serene in comparison.

Docere · #**960** Posted **Feb 24, 2018, 3:10 AM**