Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

They ARE moving a casino to the 17A interchange. Not going to be much by itself, yes, but the point is that a lot can happen in 25 years or more.

The problem with SkyTrain to Delta is more to do with how even White Rock and Maple Ridge are higher up on the wishlist.

$70-million casino in works for Delta Town & Country Inn site

The B.C. Lottery Corporation announced earlier this month that Gateway has been granted preliminary approval to relocate the Newton Community Gaming Centre in Surrey to the Delta Town & Country Inn site in Ladner.

...

Delta chose the location because of its distance from residential neighbourhoods, access to major transportation corridors and its ability to align with Delta’s tourism strategy.

It's totally outside of the 'city' and pretty much in the middle of open fields, with highway access. It's a place meant to drive to (esp as I could only find one bus stop even remotely near the planned location).

[Mac Write]

I am feeling nalstogic and I'm trying to find the original Picture of the Mark II Skytrain cars in the BC Transit Ivory.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

A much bigger concern will be the Expo Lines capacity, if Surrey Central becomes as significant as some here expect it to.

It's just logical inference; either A) Surrey's dream becomes real and Whalley turns into a skyscraper forest (in which case the proposed LRT will be overcapacity twice as fast as the Canada) or B) it doesn't, and growth continues as gradually as usual (in which case there's nothing to worry about, so an upgraded Expo and 96 will be enough for the near future). In the case of the former, there's station upgrades already on the way.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

It's totally outside of the 'city' and pretty much in the middle of open fields, with highway access. It's a place meant to drive to (esp as I could only find one bus stop even remotely near the planned location).

But it IS there - and assuming the C-Line crosses at Deas Island, it's also "on the way." If it does well, it could even encourage other businesses to set up beside it; if it doesn't, it'll still probably get more ridership than Sea Island Centre or Templeton.

All I'm saying is that it only takes a few incremental developments at a time; a casino here, a block of townhouses there, and suddenly 2-3 decades later there's a business case slightly better than "one sleepy town and a Silver City."

[Mac Write]

If any Canada Line extension happens they must convert it to LIM and use the Bombardier Mark IV, then we will have all lines fully integrated as one system.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

But it IS there - and assuming the C-Line crosses at Deas Island, it's also "on the way." If it does well, it could even encourage other businesses to set up beside it; if it doesn't, it'll still probably get more ridership than Sea Island Centre or Templeton.

All I'm saying is that it only takes a few incremental developments at a time; a casino here, a block of townhouses there, and suddenly 2-3 decades later there's a business case slightly better than "one sleepy town and a Silver City."

It will LIKELY be there - it hasn't been approved yet. Also assuming there's any extension of the Canada Line it's pretty far in the future - well beyond the casino's opening date of a few years from now.

A business case should involve adding a bus stop, and then maybe at a later date adding some version of on-ground rail.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Sheba

It will LIKELY be there - it hasn't been approved yet. Also assuming there's any extension of the Canada Line it's pretty far in the future - well beyond the casino's opening date of a few years from now.

A business case should involve adding a bus stop, and then maybe at a later date adding some version of on-ground rail.

A major bus depot was going to be built right there as part of a rapid bus system, it was part of a major project that had already begun prep work, forget what it was called...

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

They ARE moving a casino to the 17A interchange. Not going to be much by itself, yes, but the point is that a lot can happen in 25 years or more.

The problem with SkyTrain to Delta is more to do with how even White Rock and Maple Ridge are higher up on the wishlist.

The last time I was in Ladner, I noticed that it's starting to really densify with subdivisions and apartment complexes along Trunk as well as on the local roads.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

If any Canada Line extension happens they must convert it to LIM and use the Bombardier Mark IV, then we will have all lines fully integrated as one system.

Doing this makes no sense for numerous reasons, first you would require platform widening at every station, second the whole reason the Canada Line has any capacity right now was the wider trains that we would be getting rid of. Third at this point I'm not sure you are saving that much by managing one fleet. Fourth you could probably only run 3 car trains creating more capacity issues. Fifth there is no rail connection between the lines for shuffling stock. Sixth there is no compelling reason to do this in the first place...

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

It's just logical inference; either A) Surrey's dream becomes real and Whalley turns into a skyscraper forest (in which case the proposed LRT will be overcapacity twice as fast as the Canada) or B) it doesn't, and growth continues as gradually as usual (in which case there's nothing to worry about, so an upgraded Expo and 96 will be enough for the near future). In the case of the former, there's station upgrades already on the way.

Again expanding capacity when there is no tunnels involved is much less challenging. Second I think everyone is taking expanded stations a little too far. Expanding the stations might fix potentially unsafe crowding etc. but, it doesn't change the lines overall capacity. Expo is rated at something like 25,000 ppdph which isn't actually that much for a primary regional connector. A proper metro line can get up to nearly 40,000. If Surrey Central sees that level of growth just imagine the rest of the Expo Line. We'd need to seriously start thinking about relief.

[Bdawe]

[deleted]

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Again expanding capacity when there is no tunnels involved is much less challenging. Second I think everyone is taking expanded stations a little too far. Expanding the stations might fix potentially unsafe crowding etc. but, it doesn't change the lines overall capacity. Expo is rated at something like 25,000 ppdph which isn't actually that much for a primary regional connector. A proper metro line can get up to nearly 40,000. If Surrey Central sees that level of growth just imagine the rest of the Expo Line. We'd need to seriously start thinking about relief.

Expo currently maxes out at ~17,000 pphpd. A couple stations need renovation for more capacity to be used.

Translink needs to add another entrance to Burrard because the escalators can't clear passengers as fast as the trains can currently bring them.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Doing this makes no sense for numerous reasons, first you would require platform widening at every station, second the whole reason the Canada Line has any capacity right now was the wider trains that we would be getting rid of. Third at this point I'm not sure you are saving that much by managing one fleet. Fourth you could probably only run 3 car trains creating more capacity issues. Fifth there is no rail connection between the lines for shuffling stock. Sixth there is no compelling reason to do this in the first place...

Well put.

These Bombardier foamers...ermehrgerd.

[Zassk]

Even the Bombardier bid for the Canada Line, which would have used LIM, would not have had compatible rolling stock. It would have used 3m wide SkyTrain cars which would have never spent a day on the rest of the system.

[dpogue]

Skimming over the presentation from the Mayor's Council meeting, and it has some info about the number of trains being ordered:

• 56 Mark III cars ordered as part of Phase 1
• 108 Mark III cars to be ordered as part of Phase 2 (including Broadway extension)

It also has some rather dire warnings about the remaining 15% of the funding required for Phase 2.

[WarrenC12]

^^^ Don't forget 24 Canada Line cars in Phase 1. None identified yet for future phases.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Expanding the stations might fix potentially unsafe crowding etc. but, it doesn't change the lines overall capacity. Expo is rated at something like 25,000 ppdph which isn't actually that much for a primary regional connector. A proper metro line can get up to nearly 40,000. If Surrey Central sees that level of growth just imagine the rest of the Expo Line. We'd need to seriously start thinking about relief.

But it allows for longer trains, and those do increase the capacity.

25,700 pphpd to be precise, and that's assuming Mark IIs as standard rolling stock; the Mark IIIs can get 37,000-44,800 when running every 90-75 seconds. No relief needed, only better station flow.

[officedweller]

The other consideration, is that on a regional basis, Surrey City Centre is supposed to be a destination for office workers - not just a source of workers as a bedroom suburb.
So, in theory, there should be some use of counterflow on the Expo Line and not everyone feeding into downtown Vnacouver.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]