Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[airhero]

Originally Posted by Orlando

What are the most current vacancy percentages? Isn't it at 80% overall occupancy? I think that they have been waiting because the units in front of Temple Square have been the slowest to sell. They are more like 50-60% full, I think if Tower 2 was apartments it would fill up super quick, but I'm assuming that they don't want these to be apartments due to the proximity of Temple Square. In Seattle apartment tower and now condo tower units are flying off the shelf so to speak. There is a new condo tower that has begun construction, and it was sold out before it even started. Albeit, it is probably the first condo tower since the great recession. I think the LDS church is wise in their investments and will make a move on both Tower 2 and 8 within the next 5 years.

Here's a Future Mayoresque City Creek Condo update (data from city creek living website only).

City Creek Condo update
Last updated 10/24/2017

99 West:
154 of 185, up 4; 83%, up 2%

The Regent:
139 of 150, up 3; 93%, up 2%

Richards Court:
60 of 91, up 4; 66%, up 4%

Total:
353 of 426, up 11; 83%, up 3%

Looking at the units reserved vs those still available, it seems the cheapest units and the most expensive penthouse units have done very well.

[airhero]

Also I don't remember seeing this rendering before with Cascade in the background:


http://citycreekliving.com/wp-conten...e_schedule.pdf

It's so slim! The kind of building we need more of in Salt Lake.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by airhero

Here's a Future Mayoresque City Creek Condo update (data from city creek living website only).

City Creek Condo update
Last updated 10/24/2017

99 West:
154 of 185, up 4; 83%, up 2%

The Regent:
139 of 150, up 3; 93%, up 2%

Richards Court:
60 of 91, up 4; 66%, up 4%

Total:
353 of 426, up 11; 83%, up 3%

Looking at the units reserved vs those still available, it seems the cheapest units and the most expensive penthouse units have done very well.

Maybe I am ignorant regarding this, but these numbers seem really disappointing. This development was completed something like 5, 6 or 7 years ago and they are still this far away from selling out. Isn't this pathetic? I guess this is why condos are not being built.

[bob rulz]

I don't understand why condos in downtown Salt Lake are not selling?

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by JMK

I'm not sure if this was ever posted, approx 2800 S West Temple

http://cbcadvisors.com/cbc-advisors-...ity-land-deal/

[/IMG]

I'd rather see such a large plot as mixed-use than just one big apartment/townhome complex. :/

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by Orlando

What are the most current vacancy percentages? Isn't it at 80% overall occupancy? I think that they have been waiting because the units in front of Temple Square have been the slowest to sell. They are more like 50-60% full, I think if Tower 2 was apartments it would fill up super quick, but I'm assuming that they don't want these to be apartments due to the proximity of Temple Square. In Seattle apartment tower and now condo tower units are flying off the shelf so to speak. There is a new condo tower that has begun construction, and it was sold out before it even started. Albeit, it is probably the first condo tower since the great recession. I think the LDS church is wise in their investments and will make a move on both Tower 2 and 8 within the next 5 years.

I got to speak with the Lead Architect again on the AC hotel project, and he explained that another reason why the original hotel/condo proposal failed, was because of fire safety.

Due to the fact that the only entrance/exit to the building is the thirty feet fronting 100S (the north and east sides have no access, the west side onto city creek isn’t considered public access for fire safety purposes, and the south side is taken up mostly by the garage entrance) there is a limit on how many people can occupy the building, since in the event of an emergency there is only one exit. Even if they were able to reconfigure the lobby/elevators somehow, the hotel/condo proposal would not have passed fire safety code due to the higher occupancy of the building. This is why it cannot be apartments, as it would again be limited by its low rated max building occupancy. This was not discovered to be an issue untill very late in the design process, only when getting final approvals by the city it was noticed. Even if the tower were to be built as condos, it would have to be much shorter than even the original cascade proposal in order to comply with fire safety code. It was assumed when the base was built that people inside would be able to exit in an emergency to the west into city creek. However, it is not considered public access (private property) and therefore they cannot.

Someone screwed up somewhere big time. Unless they can somehow get an allowance for emergency exits into the city creek entrance, this project is effectively handicapped to a 7 story Richards court style building.

Apparently this is was a misunderstanding between the original architects and the city that went unnoticed.

[bob rulz]

Why is the east side not public access?

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Why is the east side not public access?

West side I meant. Typo. It's been fixed.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I don't understand why condos in downtown Salt Lake are not selling?

Price and demographics. I feel we've rehashed this debate a thousand times. Hopefully if the outside growth continues, Salt Lake will start filling up those condos.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Price and demographics. I feel we've rehashed this debate a thousand times. Hopefully if the outside growth continues, Salt Lake will start filling up those condos.

I also think the projects are weak from an amenity and design standpoint. A new tower would do well if it was aggressive, had some inside-outside stuff going on. Lots of people don't necessarily want to live in church-owned condos projects either. To be clear as to what is really happening, Condo sales set a record last year: https://www.sltrib.com/news/business...nty-last-year/. Just need a developer to step up.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Mountain man

Sometimes I wonder if Boz, Jimmy Chips, Airport Vids, and San Diego Honolulu are all the same person. All those names seem to have a common personality, they all lack maturity. I'm baffled by the fact that there are people out there with absolutely nothing better to do with their time than to troll. Like seriously, its insanely sad. To quote Forest Gump, "Stupid is what stupid does."

I don't understand trolls on sites like these, like if your going to be a troll why don't you do it for a football team or game or at least something somewhat understandable like that. But to troll on a development site? Like what the crap who has time for that.

I had the same thought that these are all the same person. Except for Airport vids, who I think is good’ol slcprojects I just don’t understand why the others would all gang up on Comrade, who has been a respected contributor to the forum for at least a decade, and who’s frustrations about Bears Ears I empathize with.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I don't understand why condos in downtown Salt Lake are not selling?

Because there are not that many good options. We need more condo Towers. I for one consider myself a buyer, but am not seeing anything similar to the Regent that is not owned by the LDS church.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Can anyone remind me where exactly within City Creek Tower 8 is supposed to be located?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...93987&page=154



http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=204723

[asies1981]

Update on the AC Marriott and Milagro.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I don't understand why condos in downtown Salt Lake are not selling?

Because most people can’t afford 500k+ for a 2 bedroom condo.

[scottharding]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Because most people can’t afford 500k+ for a 2 bedroom condo.

Yup this. They are way over priced.

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted by Wasatch Wasteland

I got to speak with the Lead Architect again on the AC hotel project, and he explained that another reason why the original hotel/condo proposal failed, was because of fire safety.

Someone screwed up somewhere big time. Unless they can somehow get an allowance for emergency exits into the city creek entrance, this project is effectively handicapped to a 7 story Richards court style building.

Apparently this is was a misunderstanding between the original architects and the city that went unnoticed.

Why am I not surprised. There is something in the water in Utah.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Price and demographics. I feel we've rehashed this debate a thousand times. Hopefully if the outside growth continues, Salt Lake will start filling up those condos.

Originally Posted by Marvland

I also think the projects are weak from an amenity and design standpoint. A new tower would do well if it was aggressive, had some inside-outside stuff going on. Lots of people don't necessarily want to live in church-owned condos projects either. To be clear as to what is really happening, Condo sales set a record last year: https://www.sltrib.com/news/business...nty-last-year/. Just need a developer to step up.

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Because most people can’t afford 500k+ for a 2 bedroom condo.

I know we have had this debate comrade, but not recently. The housing market is crazy good right now, as is the demand for downtown living. So while demographics are probably part of it, I feel that there is more going on than just that and price.

I like what marvland said about how a lot of people just don't want to live in LDS Church-owned condos. I didn't consider that, but it could be the X factor keeping the sales as low as they are. I feel that there is plenty of demand for downtown living to fill condo towers, but I agree that at that price point + the condos being church-owned, it's a hard sell.

Where's that developer willing to step up and do reasonably-priced condos instead of luxury apartments? (This is more a rhetorical question.)

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I know we have had this debate comrade, but not recently. The housing market is crazy good right now, as is the demand for downtown living. So while demographics are probably part of it, I feel that there is more going on than just that and price.

I like what marvland said about how a lot of people just don't want to live in LDS Church-owned condos. I didn't consider that, but it could be the X factor keeping the sales as low as they are. I feel that there is plenty of demand for downtown living to fill condo towers, but I agree that at that price point + the condos being church-owned, it's a hard sell.

Where's that developer willing to step up and do reasonably-priced condos instead of luxury apartments? (This is more a rhetorical question.)

Is there anything materially different from owning a Mormon owned condo versus any other? Is it more you think people don’t want to be associated with
the organization? I find the price argument more persuasive than who the owner is. Now that I think about it I remember reading an article in 2016 that put the blame on financing. It said banks don’t want to lend for the construction of these projects nor to finance the purchase of the units by individuals.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

Is it more you think people don’t want to be associated with the organization?

I think that's a possibility. I know people who refuse to even shop at City Creek.

As for whether it actually affects living there...I'm not sure. But considering City Creek security has been known to give a hard time to certain groups of people (I've heard a lot of anecdotal stories so take that for what it's worth) there could very well be some people who otherwise might be interested in living there who won't consider it for that reason. I know one person who refuses to even donate to the DI, watch KSL, or open a link to deseretnews.com. The anti-Mormon sentiment is very strong among some people.

Price is probably the bigger factor, I'm just saying it could be a factor to consider. I would be very surprised if there weren't plenty of people who can afford it - they're just not choosing to buy there, whether it's because those people have high-end tech jobs in Silicon Slopes and therefore don't want to commute from downtown, or they're choosing to buy a house in the suburbs/high on the bench, etc. These are all obviously just theories, but it's all we can work with.