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  #6001  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 7:37 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
A few days earlier or a few months earlier?
It sounds like they requested phased delivery. (probably to get paid for parts sooner)

The city want it all at once.
     
     
  #6002  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by c_speed3108 View Post
It sounds like they requested phased delivery. (probably to get paid for parts sooner)

The city want it all at once.
It's frustrating, but I think that's the wiser choice, prove that the whole thing works before accepting the handover of ownership.
     
     
  #6003  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 8:05 PM
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It's frustrating, but I think that's the wiser choice, prove that the whole thing works before accepting the handover of ownership.
Yep. How do you properly test the tunnel if revenue service is operating right up to the tunnel entrance?
     
     
  #6004  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 8:13 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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If the city gets the keys on Nov 2nd and they are promising service end of November, that means they are keeping those 3ish weeks for testing I guess?

I thought they were already testing the line and running trains today from Blair to OttawaU, how many months do you need to test this thing?

I'm wondering if the City (or RTG) were very conservative with this new Nov start date.. I mean, the only thing worst (from a PR perspective) than delaying the start date now, would be to delay it now (until let's say July) and then having to delay it again to Fall because this new revised date was too tight?
     
     
  #6005  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 8:20 PM
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
If the city gets the keys on Nov 2nd and they are promising service end of November, that means they are keeping those 3ish weeks for testing I guess?

I thought they were already testing the line and running trains today from Blair to OttawaU, how many months do you need to test this thing?

I'm wondering if the City (or RTG) were very conservative with this new Nov start date.. I mean, the only thing worst (from a PR perspective) than delaying the start date now, would be to delay it now (until let's say July) and then having to delay it again to Fall because this new revised date was too tight?
They have been testing in bits and pieces. I suspect once the city "gets the keys" they will want to do a full service dress rehearsal with staff including all the different train movements in and out of the yard as service ramps up and down throughout the day
     
     
  #6006  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 8:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
If the city gets the keys on Nov 2nd and they are promising service end of November, that means they are keeping those 3ish weeks for testing I guess?

I thought they were already testing the line and running trains today from Blair to OttawaU, how many months do you need to test this thing?
RTG is testing it. The city wants to do their own tests but can't do that until they are given the keys. Some of those tests may be pubic trials.
     
     
  #6007  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 8:34 PM
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I think they diverted resources away from the surface segments and into the tunnel after the sinkhole. Pre-sinkhole the surface sections were actually a few months ahead of schedule.
Also, why borrow money to finish the stations now when they won't get paid for them until November. Better to wait until closer to the transfer date to finish them.
     
     
  #6008  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
I'm wondering if the City (or RTG) were very conservative with this new Nov start date.. I mean, the only thing worst (from a PR perspective) than delaying the start date now, would be to delay it now (until let's say July) and then having to delay it again to Fall because this new revised date was too tight?
That could be why RTG suggested an earlier handover date and city staff insisted on November 2. Better a later day that can be guaranteed as opposed to an earlier day that might get pushed back further.
     
     
  #6009  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:36 PM
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That way, if the line opens say, right before the municipal election, politicians can say "Look! It opened "ahead" of schedule".
     
     
  #6010  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:44 PM
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That way, if the line opens say, right before the municipal election, politicians can say "Look! It opened "ahead" of schedule".
I was thinking the same thing. There is also this:

• Video Link
     
     
  #6011  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:46 PM
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I was thinking the same thing. There is also this:

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Well, if a politician were to ever say it would take longer, the voters would be up in arms over it.
     
     
  #6012  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 11:19 PM
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I think the problem isn't that it was delayed (these things happen on large projects) it is that they waited until the last minute to tell anyone. It is pretty obvious that the sinkhole slowed down the project and they are months behind schedule on key elements. Despite this the website wasn't updated, council wasn't updated, the public wasn't updated and the Mayor has been spewing BS for months.
     
     
  #6013  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 2:32 AM
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It's rough. But all things considered (like the sinkhole), 6 months of delay is really not that bad. If there aren't any more hiccups, I'd actually be impressed with RTG and the city staff here.

This was a tough project for the city. And the engineering conditions were challenging for RTG. They've done alright and aren't terribly off-track (pun intended).

The only thing that worries me is a launch during the busier Fall and Winter months. They'll be switching over tons of student traffic to the LRT right in the middle of the semester. They'll also miss out on a summer of tourists on which to make an impression. But those aren't really the worst things that could happen.

Crossed fingers. Hopefully, they've built a little more slack than necessary and deliver in the late summer.
     
     
  #6014  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 2:47 AM
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Downtown businesses unsurprised and frustrated by LRT delay

Nicholas Dunne, Ottawa Citizen
Vito Pilieci, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: February 6, 2018 | Last Updated: February 6, 2018 6:08 PM EST


The news of a delay in the opening of the city’s $2.1-billion light rail project, which has now been pushed back to November, attracted a chorus of groans from downtown businesses on Tuesday, but many are prepared to simply tough it out for another nine months.

“Of course we’d like to see the end of construction,” said Peggy DuCharme, executive director of the Downtown Rideau Business Improvement Area (BIA). “We’d been aware that the likelihood of them not meeting May was pretty high. So we were anticipating that it would be delayed.”

Rideau Transit Group, the construction consortium behind the light rail project, had initially planned to hand over a completed Confederation Line LRT to the City of Ottawa this spring.

Corey Hackett, co-owner of Top of the World skateboard shop, which has been on Rideau Street for 25 years, said the construction, street closures and traffic in and around Rideau Street have forced him to lay off staff, cut costs and suffer from a lack of foot traffic. With the size and scope of the project, he said it’s hard to believe it would have ever been on time.

“The fact that it’s late is no shock,” said Hackett. “I’d really like it if my view changed out the front of the store. I’m really tired of looking at construction.”

He also said it’s baffling how construction has unfolded. He said he can’t understand the continued interruption to traffic along Rideau Street when it appears all of the construction has now moved into the tunnel underground.

“I understood (the closure) when there was an enormous hole in the ground,” he said. “It’d be nice to get some sort of idea when we can have our street back.”

Many other businesses on Rideau Street didn’t want to speak on record when contacted by this newspaper on Tuesday, but they equally expressed frustration and a lack of surprise about the delay.

“I sometimes forget that there wasn’t construction,” one business owner said.

Manny Berhanu of Le Spot, near William and Rideau streets, looked around his empty store and asked, “Do you you see any people here?” when questioned about the effect construction has had on business.

Berhanu estimates his store has seen a 65 per cent decrease in sales since construction started.

He said rent is high along Rideau Street, and the loss in revenue makes finances even tighter. A potential increase in business when construction ends isn’t enough for the years of losses, he said.

Over on Queen Street, Nasser Abou-El-Daoule, owner of Friend’s Coffee Co., said the delay isn’t surprising. In fact, he said he wouldn’t be surprised if further delays were announced.

Abou-El-Daoule said LRT construction has “destroyed” his business, which has been in the same location since 2002. “I used all my credit, all my savings,” to keep the business afloat, he said.

He is unsure whether or not LRT will improve business once it’s completed, but said he can only hope. “We don’t have anything else.”

At least one business, however, took Tuesday’s news in stride.

Ian Hooper, business manager for the Ottawa Champions baseball team, said the team was hoping that the line would be up and running this summer, giving fans easy access to Raymond Chabot Grant Thornton Park. But the team is prepared to wait, he said.

“It is what it is and 2019 will be here soon,” said Hooper. “We understand these things happen.”

http://ottawacitizen.com/business/local-...-unsurprised-and-frustrated-by-lrt-delay
     
     
  #6015  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 2:49 AM
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After years of promises, city blows LRT deadline with a shrug

David Reevely David Reevely
Published on: February 6, 2018 | Last Updated: February 6, 2018 6:28 PM EST


Ottawa’s light-rail project is six months late and well, what are you gonna do? These things happen.

The rhetoric has shifted a bit, maybe you’ve noticed, from “On time and on budget!” to “¯\_(ツ)_/¯”.

The ominous rumbling began almost as soon as city council approved a budget for 2018 that assumed trains would start rolling at the beginning of July, as has been planned and promised for years. The Rideau Street sinkhole and numerous other construction quirks and quiggles had the project far enough behind schedule that that July target was in doubt.

“I don’t call it late, I call it an adjustment of the date, for all the right reasons,” OC Transpo’s general manager John Manconi said at the time.

Now we know that the start date is being adjusted, for all the right reasons, to November. And we’re generously forgoing a million-dollar penalty that adjustment, for all the right reasons, entitles us to.

The city’s contract with Rideau Transit Group is clear: There’d be a “revenue service availability date,” the day the builders would hand over the keys with the assurance that the trains were ready to roll, and if they missed it, they’d owe us $1 million.

The city and RTG agreed that May 24, 2018 would be that date (the city’s own preparations and rehearsals would take a few weeks beyond that). RTG supposedly said they thought they could hit it. The city said no, we don’t think so, take until November.

A six-month delay on a project of this scale isn’t nuts. If we’d heard in 2011 that trains would be as close to carrying passengers in 2018 as they are, most of us would have thought that was pretty good. But it is a disappointment relative to all the talk in the intervening years about how well everything was going because of how great a deal the city made with its great group of tunnellers and track-layers.

Manconi is always careful. He’s not been the guy boasting that the rail project is on time and on budget — just that RTG had every incentive to deliver.

The boaster has always been Mayor Jim Watson, who’s hardly ever mentioned the project without reminding his listeners of its on-timeness and on-budgetness. When Watson announced last March he’d run for re-election, the triumph of the LRT was the second thing he touted after keeping tax increases small, echoing lines in every state-of-the-city address he’s given since construction started.

“(A)fter years of false starts, lawsuits and cancellations, we are now on the verge of witnessing the opening of our new Light Rail Transit (LRT) system, on time and on budget,” he wrote.

Or, look, six months late. Whatever. We want the right starting date, not an arbitrary one. You don’t want the train to be unsafe, do you?

(That’s a rhetorical trick to watch for: the idea that holding the mayor and the city to the standard they’ve invited is merely advocating recklessness.)

Back-of-the-envelope math ($2.1 billion, divided by five years of 365 days each) says the LRT construction contract is worth something like $1.1 million a day. When top city people say RTG has much bigger incentives to get the job done than a one-off $1-million penalty, that’s what they’re talking about. It’s a paltry fine in such a massive budget.

Still, a million bucks is a million bucks. City councillors fought an ugly little battle last fall, with backstabbing and betrayals, over $8 million in pothole money. We’d find something to do with it.

The agreement transfers all the project’s risks to RTG, for anything that goes wrong that isn’t obviously the city’s fault. Wetter ground than expected? RTG’s problem. The price of concrete shoots up? RTG’s problem. Sinkholes? RTG’s problem, thank goodness.

The extra months of work — time during which RTG’s workers have to be paid, its equipment not used on other jobs, its lights kept on — are also all at RTG’s expense.

We made RTG borrow money from private lenders to finance its own work, expecting that their oversight of their investment would be better than anything we could do. (That raised the price of the project by $165 million, but it gave us yet more guarantees the consortium would deliver.) RTG isn’t getting its final construction payments until construction is complete, and making things right with its lenders in the meantime is RTG’s problem, not ours.

That sums up the protection we were promised. We appear to be getting it.

The thing is, nevertheless, late. We’re getting six more months of bus-clogged streets, six more months of construction-related traffic jams, six more months of not having the thing we’re paying all this money for. The million dollars wouldn’t be much compensation for all that but it would have been nice.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...ses-city-blows-lrt-deadline-with-a-shrug
     
     
  #6016  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 3:40 AM
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[url]

Is there anyone else just as pissed as I am?
My guess is many city councillors and the mayor himself. They're heading into a fall election and apologizing for the delays. Running an election in defensive mode isn't good for any candidate.
     
     
  #6017  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 1:28 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
It's rough. But all things considered (like the sinkhole), 6 months of delay is really not that bad. If there aren't any more hiccups, I'd actually be impressed with RTG and the city staff here.
Seriously. Not ideal, but this is not a huge amount of schedule-slip for a project this big.
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  #6018  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 4:43 PM
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Seriously. Not ideal, but this is not a huge amount of schedule-slip for a project this big.
As acottawa pointed out, the real issue isn't the delay, it's that we didn't hear about it officially until now and until quite recently everyone involved was denying the delay.

We should have known, publically and officially, that a schedule slip was likely a year ago.
     
     
  #6019  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 4:48 PM
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Everybody who has been paying attention and watching the progress of the project could tell that May completion was not going to happen. This has been apparent for quite some time. The only thing that has happened is official confirmation of that fact. Establishing an alternate date is not trivial so expecting some official recognition of the delay without establishing an alternate date would have been criticized by the press and public.
     
     
  #6020  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 4:49 PM
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Anyone paying attention knew this was coming. Look at Canada Day; all work on the surface was supposed to be done by then. 7 months later; still not done. This is more than the Rideau Street sinkhole, which might have delayed the project by a month.
     
     
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