Amazon HQ2 thread

[James Bond Agent 007]

The Olympics needs huge amounts of coordination in order to site all the venues that need to be built for your typical Olympics. Amazon will need just 1 or 2 adequate sites to fit 8 million square feet. Relatively little coordination will be needed for that.

[skyscraperpage17]

It is kind of sad that Amazon didn't even stick to its own requirements with these picks.

The RFQ said there should only be 1 proposal per MSA. Yet, we see the crap with Washington D.C.

On top of that, they selected several cities who have very abysmal transit systems and lack the flight connectivity they listed. Columbus, for example, doesn't even have direct flights to Seattle nor San Francisco.

I frankly don't blame those in Detroit if they're upset. They have more of a right to be than any city that wasn't chosen. It does seem like a big "F*** U" to them the more I think about it.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

They are really making a game of this. 20? really? They should have cut it down to 10 at least. This is basically every big city that applied for it sans Detroit.

zzz

Yes, it's nothing more than a useless game of let's see how many more billions we can squeeze out of these places in bribes before we make our final announcement. Amazon should be ashamed of itself.

Honestly, I figure this is nothing more than a huge PR stunt when all is said and done.

[C.]

It would be funny if Toronto gets it. They're offering no incentives.

[Antares41]

Originally Posted by CIA

How much of an impact will HQ2 have on the region? Let's say Newark is selected. NYC will also greatly benefit and vice versa. The same is especially true with DC, Northern Virginia, and Montgomery County, Maryland.

50,000 direct employees, plus any other businesses that spurt up due to the economic multiplier effect. It's going to be a major impact for the region I would think.

I think the answer to your question is yes, for any of the six locations (3 DCs, 1 Philly, 2 NYC). The proximity of these locations to one another means there will be an impact up and down the WASH-NYC corridor. Also, as you stated, the ancillary business/suppliers that may will want to locate near Amazon only intensifies the need for good accessibility/transportation which the region already possesses.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by CIA

It would be funny if Toronto gets it. They're offering no incentives.

They are: Single-Payer Healthcare.

[Antares41]

Originally Posted by CIA

Good point - I would say no for cost of living reasons. But then again New Jersey legislature just passed a massive tax incentive and one of the final acts of the prior NJ governor was signing it into law. We're talking billions and billions in incentives.

Seven billion to be exact.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Not being in the US is the incentive.

As far as requirements go, do we actually have any indication if any of the requirements were mandatory (pass/fail) requirements or how much each was weighted. I'm sure they did a bit of that, but we don't know that some place said we'll build the railline to the area and outlying regions, or that the local government would subsidize chartered flights to get over the direct flight hurdle. All sorts of craziness is possible.

It would be entertaining to read through all the proposals now.

[Antares41]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Minneapolis didn't want to offer the incentives Amazon wants.

As far as Houston, Dallas is just a much better fit.

I would have bet Minneapolis over Indianapolis and Columbus. Guess the folks up there like it the way it is.... can't much blame them.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

It is kind of sad that Amazon didn't even stick to its own requirements with these picks.

The RFQ said there should only be 1 proposal per MSA. Yet, we see the crap with Washington D.C.

On top of that, they selected several cities who have very abysmal transit systems and lack the flight connectivity they listed. Columbus, for example, doesn't even have direct flights to Seattle nor San Francisco.

Few of the items in Amazon's list were absolute requirements:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf

In choosing the location for HQ2, Amazon has a preference for:
...
HQ2 could be, but does not have to be:

In fact, if you look over the RFP you'll notice that nearly all the "requirements" were listed in terms of "preference" or "will prioritize." Don't see many absolutes.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by Antares41

I would have bet Minneapolis over Indianapolis and Columbus. Guess the folks up there like it the way it is.... can't much blame them.

Minneapolis is doing ok, although I do wonder how well they'll fair if Target and Best Buy go belly up.

[Northern Light]

Originally Posted by CIA

It would be funny if Toronto gets it. They're offering no incentives.

Not quite accurate.

No tax incentives.

But a review of the costs for labour and leases etc. would suggest Toronto already has a substantial cost advantage over its U.S. competitors.

Though, whether Toronto gets this or not, I don't expect cost to be a deciding factor.

The one specific guarantee that offered as a massive increase in STEM grads (already very high here in Ontario); with a specific commitment to tailor the relevant programs to meet Amazon's needs.

***

The arguable key thing for Toronto, should it win, is ease of access to the international talent pool.

Canada has a program called 'Global Talent Stream' which can process bringing in a key skilled worker in 2 weeks.

That along w/rules that have a path to citizenship for foreign students and skilled foreign workers allows easier access to global talent than the U.S.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/immigration-high-tech-canada-global-skills-strategy-1.4391409

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Few of the items in Amazon's list were absolute requirements:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf

In fact, if you look over the RFP you'll notice that nearly all the "requirements" were listed in terms of "preference" or "will prioritize." Don't see many absolutes.

Even if what you say is technically true, I still don't think it's very ethical to lead people on about stuff that's encouraged or important and then completely disregard them when decision time comes.

[HomeInMyShoes]

^In the end, most RFPs are weighted against the other RFPs. Without seeing the actual RFPs we don't know if Detroit or any other city put in a ridiculous unthorough or lousy proposal in comparison to anyone else. We just don't. We also don't know what Amazon's wish set was against the set of RFPs that came back. This is probably something like the best RFPs from the intersection of those sets.

There might be a couple of outliers, but there's probably only one or two places outside of MSA's that Amazon had in their set.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

^In the end, most RFPs are weighted against the other RFPs. Without seeing the actual RFPs we don't know if Detroit or any other city put in a ridiculous unthorough or lousy proposal in comparison to anyone else. We just don't. We also don't know what Amazon's wish set was against the set of RFPs that came back. This is probably something like the best RFPs from the intersection of those sets.

There might be a couple of outliers, but there's probably only one or two places outside of MSA's that Amazon had in their set.

FWIW, Detroit was given a very generic reason for its rejection, since some of the top 20 cities that were selected suffer from the same issues.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/busine...mazon-headquarters-finalists/1043624001/

Amazon praised it for its proposal, so that wasn't the issue.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/201...reaks-120-million-talent-program-transit

What CIA said earlier is likely most accurate. The employees Amazon would want likely don't want to live in Detroit because it's perceived as poor and crime-ridden, yet Amazon's too professional to actually say that.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

FWIW, Detroit was given a very generic reason for its rejection, since some of the top 20 cities that were selected suffer from the same issues.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/busine...mazon-headquarters-finalists/1043624001/

Amazon praised it for its proposal, so that wasn't the issue.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/201...reaks-120-million-talent-program-transit

What CIA said earlier is likely most accurate. The employees Amazon would want likely don't want to live in Detroit because it's perceived as poor and crime-ridden, yet Amazon's too professional to actually say that.

Yeah, that's obviously a lie. Detroit has a much larger talent pool than Indianapolis.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Even if what you say is technically true, I still don't think it's very ethical to lead people on about stuff that's encouraged or important and then completely disregard them when decision time comes.

They need to say *something* about their preferences in order to give people an idea about what they're interested in. As long as they made it plain that they were just "preferences" and not absolutes there was no misleading going on.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

FWIW, Detroit was given a very generic reason for its rejection, since some of the top 20 cities that were selected suffer from the same issues.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/busine...mazon-headquarters-finalists/1043624001/

Amazon praised it for its proposal, so that wasn't the issue.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/201...reaks-120-million-talent-program-transit

What CIA said earlier is likely most accurate. The employees Amazon would want likely don't want to live in Detroit because it's perceived as poor and crime-ridden, yet Amazon's too professional to actually say that.

Yeah, this doesn't make sense. Detroit can certainly check the box for transit over half the cities that were listed. It can also check talent pool over many of the other cities that were listed. Either they split the cities up to be reviewed in different groups, hence the inconsistencies, or there is some other un-quantified metric at play.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yeah, this doesn't make sense. Detroit can certainly check the box for transit over half the cities that were listed. It can also check talent pool over many of the other cities that were listed. Either they split the cities up to be reviewed in different groups, hence the inconsistencies, or there is some other un-quantified metric at play.

In comparison, this is the explanation Volkswagen gave to Michigan when it ultimately selected Tennessee:

"When John (CEO of Walbridge, which built the Tennessee plant) was in Frankfurt talking to the then-CEO of Volkswagen, Michigan and Tennessee were the two finalist states, and Volkswagen ended up picking Tennessee. When John asked why, the CEO said that the financial deal put on the table by the state of Michigan was actually slightly better than the one from Tennessee but they chose Tennessee because of what he called 'cohesion.'

"He said there were multiple levels of government unified and everyone saying, 'We have one bid for you and we're all going to support this,' Baruah recalled. "In Michigan, people were tripping over each other and there were multiple bids and no alignment. People were competing against each other and we wanted a region where if we had a problem, we knew the region would come together to solve the problem as opposed to pointing fingers.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/columni...dan-gilbert-amazon-hq-detroit/662745001/

Big difference, right?

[jd3189]

Interesting to see this thread open up again. People came on this quickly.

Atlanta
Austin, Tex.
Boston
Chicago
Columbus, Ohio
Dallas
Denver
Indianapolis
Los Angeles
Miami
Montgomery County, Md.
Nashville
Newark
New York
Northern Virginia
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Raleigh, N.C.
Toronto, Canada
Washington, D.C.

This is a pretty good list and I hope the best to whoever gets the HQ. The cities I'm rooting for the most are Atlanta, Austin,Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Miami, NYC/Newark, DC/NoVa, Philly, and Toronto. Each has their benefits and flaws but Amazon being there would be a game changer economically.


The main problems I see with the Boston, NYC, and LA bids is that these cities are pretty expensive and are currently having trouble with growing. Although, with the size of NYC and LA, Amazon would just be another industry.


Plus, I see that tech is stressed a lot in this thread. Amazon is a tech company but it is also a retail company no different from WalMart or Target. All these cities have or are near universities that can provide some tech talent. Many are central cities of metro areas that inevitably have talent and have the potential to attract talent through housing. Similar to the way Amazon grew in Seattle in the first place.

Originally Posted by pj3000

Not shocked at all. I think it has had a much better chance from the get-go than people probably understand.

Diagonal opposite geographically from Seattle... in what has become the hub of access to Latin American commerce and wealth in the hemisphere. Miami and Florida will do whatever Amazon wants and have the $ to do so. High-speed rail being developed along with all of the massive real estate development and population influx. Major international airport.

And Bezos is Cuban and grew up in Miami.

Plus South Florida is only of the top ten largest metros in the US and had rail access to 2 of its international airports with direct connections. The only problem is that talent tends to leave Miami because of lack of major domestic US companies in the area. That's why Bezos decided to leave Miami for Seattle, which had some major tech companies like Microsoft. I would think there is some talent in UM, FIU, FAU, and Nova that they could offer that usually goes out of state. If Amazon comes here and is successful, it might encourage more tech to come to live in all those condos.



Amazon could also be a game changer for Atlanta, since their bid offers redevelopment of a few acres in downtown.


But,yeah. Amazon will be most helpful in some of the Midwestern cities like Columbus and Indianapolis and rising Southern center like Austin, Nashville, and Raleigh.