LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Vixx

Just going to throw my two cents here since this has become one of the city's top issues.


I speculate that there's been a stalemate between Melnyk, the city and the NCC (soil remediation? who knows) and with Melnyk's already bleak financial situation, is trying to drum up talk and throw a Hail Mary that he get some sort of sweet heart deal like Katz did in Edmonton.

Why would a new owner be less likely to have an impasse with the city and NCC? The idea that a different billionaire would be more willing to pump huge amounts of money to satisfy the NCC seems unlikely to me. Almost every professional sports facility in Canada was built with public funds, including all recent ones.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/a-look-at-canadian-stadiums-built-with-public-funds

[daud]

again the rumours abound. Alot of it coming out of Quebec and involving Guy Laliberte and Daniel Alfredsson.

The timing of these rumours coincides with NCC's statement of a milestone meeting in January:

here's a timeline to digest:

July 1, 2017: Alfredsson leaves Senators

November 23, 2017: NCC Mark Kristmanson on Lebreton "I'd say that January will be another one of those milestone meetings."

November 28, 2017: Rumours that Guy Laliberte may be involved in an offer for the Sens with Daniel Alfredsson: https://senshot.com/2017/11/28/ottawa-senators-seven-game-trip/

http://www.danslescoulisses.com/fr/rumeu...ent-etre-vendus-au-debut-de-lannee-2018/

Love the second link with the hashtag referencing Alfredsson involvement #monpetitdoigtmeladit (my little finger told me)

I feel pretty certain Melnyk is sitting on an offer now that involves Alfredsson in some capacity probably backed by Desmarais and Laliberte and that he has given some indication he will take it. Liam McGuire's blog states an offer for 600 million was made.

I just hope this rumour pans out. Fans are going to go crazy if Alfredsson comes back in a management/minority ownership role.

[J.OT13]

I do not want to see the DCDLS project built. The bunch of random novelty junk on the north side wind swept plaza and the packed mixed-use district on the south side, separated by a double track railway and caged by chainlink fences. Bunch of sore losers threatening to sue the NCC.

I hope OSEG buys the team and continues with the RVL proposal (Trinity being part of both OSEG and RVL). Bonus if Alfredsson was part of that group.

The NCC is referencing a positive milestone in January. No way is it that the negotiations with RVL broke down and now they're starting from scratch with DCDLS. They might have found a compromise between the two biggest issues; cleanup and purchase i.e. NCC will pay the full cost of cleanup, in exchange RVL buys the land outright (or vis versa).

[lrt's friend]

I would not object to a hybrid plan, that takes the best of both. I have heard for a while that Daniel Alfredsson is interested in a minority ownership role with the team. This bodes well for Karlsson's ongoing role on the team if it is true.

If Melnyk cannot pull off RVL, will we see effectively a hostile take over the team?

[daud]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I would not object to a hybrid plan, that takes the best of both. I have heard for a while that Daniel Alfredsson is interested in a minority ownership role with the team. This bodes well for Karlsson's ongoing role on the team if it is true.

If Melnyk cannot pull off RVL, will we see effectively a hostile take over the team?

I'd like a hybrid too. I think there were elements of both proposals that were good. Who knows what is going to be revealed (if anything) at the NCC meeting January 25. I will be watching it with popcorn though. I am hoping there are some surprise people in attendance.

[Vixx]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Why would a new owner be less likely to have an impasse with the city and NCC? The idea that a different billionaire would be more willing to pump huge amounts of money to satisfy the NCC seems unlikely to me. Almost every professional sports facility in Canada was built with public funds, including all recent ones.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/a-look-at-canadian-stadiums-built-with-public-funds

I don't think anyone ever doubted that some public money would be pumped into Lebreton. Melnyk is stubborn, short sighted and hard to get along with. It's also been well known that he has been struggling financially (he's still loaded, but he can't commit the same $ as other owners do). Having local owner(s) would do wonders, IMO, to show some genuine care for the city and team and do whatever means necessary to make fan experience great and get a huge project like Lebreton going.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

Firestone said that in his circle the rumour is that the Rendezvous Group wants a land lease deal from the NCC, while the NCC wants a pile of money up front for the land.

That makes a lot of sense. Melnyk doesn't have enough money to buy the land and develop it, so he would want to lease it. However the NCC's can't really offload the cost of cleanup to the RVL if RVL doesn't own the land, unless they give them an amazing deal on the lease as compensation. Melnyk may not even have enough cash to do that yet the NCC likely doesn't want to spend all that money on cleanup now and have it take decades (?) to recoup that expense, even if it would be best for them in the long run as they would end up with a constant source of income for a very long time.

[1overcosc]

I would support covering decontamination costs, a reduced price on the land, and an interest free loan as public aid for the Sens proposal. Much else.. No way.

[cpa4s]

the tossed around amount of $600 million probably includes assumption of debt which someone earlier pegged at $150 million........ and debt has an amazing ability to keep getting kicked down the road, so the real capital injection is a lot lower imo.

[J.OT13]

Sums it up pretty nicely.

*I tried all of the Nightmare Before Christmas songs. Just doesn't work.

An ode to Eugene and the Senators

Written by reader Ginette Hamilton, and recited, we’ve decided, to the rhythm of The Night Before Christmas*

Dear Mr. Melnyk…..

Long before you came on the scene
Ottawa hockey fans had a big dream
To bring a team of quality here
and support that team throughout the years

Through the process the public asked to be involved
but where to place the arena was unresolved
in spite of fans’ wishes to build it somewhere central
the powers that be ignored that potential

In every other hockey town, Canada or the U.S.
Those organizers really considered “easy access”
Still fans in this city tried to let our powers know
if put in Kanata, it would be hard for all to go

But build it they did, so many miles away
And fans did their best to come watch Sens play
A short time later, we had our quality team
The “gentlemen players” under Alfredsson’s lead

Try as they might to bring home the Cup
Still, exciting hockey, so we fans won’t give up
Then the day you took over, it was such a thrill
We fans were thankful and happy … and are still

A lifetime of hard work done on your part
Allowed your decision to buy into this sport
But we fight the traffic, every day the same
go home, feed the kids, walk the dog, then the game

And now Ottawa workers can’t get our pay
we can’t pay our mortgage, so see a game, no way
“Joe average” is struggling just to pay the rent
But in our hearts, we’d rather go see the Sens

Yet pride in our team continues to shine
However now the owner has begun to whine
So please don’t mistake those empty seats as derelict
For I can assure you, we love our team, led by Erik

So from the Sens fans I’d like to say
Please, I beg you, hang in, and wait for the day
With a central location, LRT and Pheonix gone
This city will back their team, in spite of all the wrongs

And finally sir, I speak from my heart
Time will heal this city, and play time will re-start
The future looks hopeful, hockey history renewed
We believe it … and so should you

http://ottawasun.com/news/local-news/an-ode-to-eugene-and-the-senators

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Vixx

I don't think anyone ever doubted that some public money would be pumped into Lebreton. Melnyk is stubborn, short sighted and hard to get along with. It's also been well known that he has been struggling financially (he's still loaded, but he can't commit the same $ as other owners do). Having local owner(s) would do wonders, IMO, to show some genuine care for the city and team and do whatever means necessary to make fan experience great and get a huge project like Lebreton going.

I'm not sure most of the owners being suggested as being interested could be counted as local. Mr. Laliberté splits his time between Nukutepipi and Montreal and I have never heard of an Ottawa connection. Mr. Desmarais was born in Ottawa, but has lived in Montreal for most of his life.

I would agree with your assessment of Mr. Melnyk. However, many (perhaps most) billionaires share many of the same traits. Such billionaires are still able to make deals. I think the bottom line is if the math on Lebreton worked then there would be a big property developer involved, even if Mr. Melnyk is a jackass. The Lebreton land just isn't worth the billions it would take to use the profit to buy the team, write down the CTC, pay off the debt, clean up the land, pay the NCC, build the infrastructure, build the amenities and then subsidize the team's operations.

It just doesn't make any sense to suggest an out-of-town billionaire would be willing to take such a huge loss. It is possible that another owner would be better able to get the necessary subsidies to make this work, but the board of governors would need some pretty iron clad guarantees to push out an owner in hopes of getting subsidies.

[daud]

my gut says this team is sold.

you have the NCC on one side suggesting a milestone meeting in January and others suggesting melnyk is at an impasse.

The other thing is there is a tonne of chatter about Melnyk's debt being bought up-could be refinancing but I think its indicative of a sale.

Lastly, we are seeing no big trades, no firing of coaches, nothing, despite the horrible on-ice play. Their play is approaching the point that we should be seeing people lose their jobs but it appears they are in a holding pattern.

I really think we're going to see in the new year a sale announcement of the senators and the NCC is going to announce a reconfigured lebreton partnership and agreement.

Fingers crossed because I don't see anything good happening with Melnyk in the drivers seat.

[acottawa]

Sold in secret and approved by the Board of Governors in secret?

[YOWflier]

It would be unusual since such business deals typically occur in the public realm and not behind closed doors. This is especially so with private companies. (sarcasm alert)

And to anyone wondering why a "foreign" entity would be interested in the Sens... maybe it has something to do with the ~4 billion real estate deal involved.

[daud]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Sold in secret and approved by the Board of Governors in secret?

I should rephrase...I believe there is an "agreement of sale" and any current secrecy revolves around a) the Lebreton negotiations muzzle b) need to get a complex deal together with no outside interference. There's lots of pieces to this (team, new rink, old rink, lebreton deal).

Board of governors will only approve a sale after an proposed agreement has been reached and likely won't publicly make any statement in a pending agreement to a transaction with 2 willing parties.

No matter how many ways you slice it, the NCC comments of a milestone meeting in January make no sense based on the status quo

We'll find out in January but I'm hopeful Melnyk will be gone.

[daud]

here's just a snippet of some comments on Twitter media and other sources:

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by daud

I should rephrase...I believe there is an "agreement of sale" and any current secrecy revolves around a) the Lebreton negotiations muzzle b) need to get a complex deal together with no outside interference. There's lots of pieces to this (team, new rink, old rink, lebreton deal).

Board of governors will only approve a sale after an proposed agreement has been reached and likely won't publicly make any statement in a pending agreement to a transaction with 2 willing parties.

No matter how many ways you slice it, the NCC comments of a milestone meeting in January make no sense based on the status quo

We'll find out in January but I'm hopeful Melnyk will be gone.

I'm not sure if I would draw a connection between the "milestone" comment and the sale rumours. It sounds more like they hope some progress will be made in the negotiations before January. If the sale rumours are true (which I highly doubt) then I am not sure why the NCC would be involved. They are in negotiations with SSE, not Melnyk personally. Also, there won't be a BoG meeting before the January NCC meeting.

[daud]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I'm not sure if I would draw a connection between the "milestone" comment and the sale rumours. It sounds more like they hope some progress will be made in the negotiations before January. If the sale rumours are true (which I highly doubt) then I am not sure why the NCC would be involved. They are in negotiations with SSE, not Melnyk personally. Also, there won't be a BoG meeting before the January NCC meeting.

Well, I'll eat some humble pie if we hear nothing by end of January, but I fully expect you to grab a fork and dig in if we do hear something

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

It would be unusual since such business deals typically occur in the public realm and not behind closed doors. This is especially so with private companies. (sarcasm alert)

And to anyone wondering why a "foreign" entity would be interested in the Sens... maybe it has something to do with the ~4 billion real estate deal involved.

It would be pretty unusual for a deal of this scale to be close to conclusion without a peep from the actual press (business or sports). There has also been no hint that any of the rumoured players are clearing the deck to make way for the purchase (selling other assets, getting out of other commitments, etc). It's possible it has been done under absolute secrecy, except for all of the random people on twitter that have apparently been informed.

I think you have added a zero. InterRent paid about $12 million an acre for part of the trinity land. That would put the value of the development land on the flats somewhere in the $300M range.

[YOWflier]

Two things:

1) maybe the "deal" isn't so secret at all, which is why the "random" people on Twitter, including many hockey insiders, say they know or have heard stuff.

2) I said real estate, not just land. Usually stuff is built on land, which also has value.