PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

The former GSK headquarters at 16th & Vine now re-skinned and branded as One Franklin Tower in glass. Not unusual. New tower looks way better than old. Plus Philly's ratio of glass to masonry skyscrapers are low. Until we can really complain of having way too many glass high rises built in this build cycle or the next, it's a hyperbole that the city is saturated with glass high rises as some others have suggested.

I get what you're saying but it just seem short-sighted. Part of the exciting thing of this city is its diversity in architectural styles and eras. If every time a building "felt dated" we reskinned it - then that reality would be totally lost.

Remember the Gimbels Department store - it was deemed "out dated" and demo'd and Snellenburgs - also deemed out dated was "modernized" and reskinned to match current design styles...

http://philadelphiaencyclopedia.org/wp-c...phillyhistory-e1323749760895-575x340.jpg
[Sourece: Greater Philadelphia Encyclopeia]

[iheartphilly]

^

I not suggesting a glass rectangle box as my model glass highrise. That's why I picked Aramark because it has curves and angles. Further, I like to see Philly get some bold designs wrapped in glass. I also like the examples you pointed out (Verre and Steinway) and hope Philly can get something like that in the near future. Our best chance is probably the Schuykill Yard projects if and when it comes to fruition with the right tenant that has deep pockets that wants a super high profile design and building.

And for the record, I don't think every "dated" building should be re-skinned. And certainly not the Gimbels. But, another example that comes to mind is the Sheraton hotel on 17th. This is another candidate for a re-skin.

Please scroll through the pics in the link below. I like some of those designs too.

See link:
http://www.cnn.com/style/article/rise-of-glass-skyscrapers/index.html

[McBane]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I agree with you. I like diversity of architecture. A reskin or something amazing like Steinway of Tower Verre would be one thing. But that’s not what we’d get. We’d get some boring, generic, glass. There are plenty such buildings. Also I like the cladding here much better than the GSK building. That building really needed the updating, and it’s a big improvement.

My sentiments exactly!

The Aramark building is actually pretty cool. I especially like the curves and variety of tiers/setbacks - certainly beats the square boxes we typically see. While I don't love the cladding, I agree with jsbrook - what's the alternative? Silver/blue glass? It's certainly not even close to being as offensive as the GSK building and it's nice to have something different, if for no other reason than just to break up the monotony of limestone and blue/silver glass. Honestly, when it comes to dreaming up things that would make our skyline nicer, there's probably at least 500 other items I'd rather see done.

If you want to discuss the ugliest building from that era, it has to be Commerce Square. Terribly fat with that awful roof. Doubly bad because they twinned it and the towers stand relatively unobstructed. The best solution is to develop the hell out of the far end of Market Street so that one day Commerce Square can be obstructed. Hard to believe these monstrosities was designed by IM Pei, the same architect that gave us the Society Hill Towers.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by McBane

My sentiments exactly!

The Aramark building is actually pretty cool. I especially like the curves and variety of tiers/setbacks - certainly beats the square boxes we typically see. While I don't love the cladding, I agree with jsbrook - what's the alternative? Silver/blue glass? It's certainly not even close to being as offensive as the GSK building and it's nice to have something different, if for no other reason than just to break up the monotony of limestone and blue/silver glass. Honestly, when it comes to dreaming up things that would make our skyline nicer, there's probably at least 500 other items I'd rather see done.

If you want to discuss the ugliest building from that era, it has to be Commerce Square. Terribly fat with that awful roof. Doubly bad because they twinned it and the towers stand relatively unobstructed. The best solution is to develop the hell out of the far end of Market Street so that one day Commerce Square can be obstructed. Hard to believe these monstrosities was designed by IM Pei, the same architect that gave us the Society Hill Towers.

Agree with you on Aramark but imo, Commerce Square > Society Hill Towers. Yes, Commerce Square is a bit dated as well but it's different and has some pop, Society Hill Towers on the other hand are just bland to me. Happy to have both, but if I had to choose one set to keep and one to demo, I'd keep Commerce Square hands down.

Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Agree with you on Aramark but imo, Commerce Square > Society Hill Towers. Yes, Commerce Square is a bit dated as well but it's different and has some pop, Society Hill Towers on the other hand are just bland to me. Happy to have both, but if I had to choose one set to keep and one to demo, I'd keep Commerce Square hands down.

Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks.

Agree. I'm definitely a Commerce Sq fan.


(credit: Emporis)


(credit: www.commercialcafe.com)

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by McBane

My sentiments exactly!

The Aramark building is actually pretty cool. I especially like the curves and variety of tiers/setbacks - certainly beats the square boxes we typically see. While I don't love the cladding, I agree with jsbrook - what's the alternative? Silver/blue glass? It's certainly not even close to being as offensive as the GSK building and it's nice to have something different, if for no other reason than just to break up the monotony of limestone and blue/silver glass. Honestly, when it comes to dreaming up things that would make our skyline nicer, there's probably at least 500 other items I'd rather see done.

If you want to discuss the ugliest building from that era, it has to be Commerce Square. Terribly fat with that awful roof. Doubly bad because they twinned it and the towers stand relatively unobstructed. The best solution is to develop the hell out of the far end of Market Street so that one day Commerce Square can be obstructed. Hard to believe these monstrosities was designed by IM Pei, the same architect that gave us the Society Hill Towers.

+1 on Commerce Square. There's also nothing significant on either side of the towers from the north or south, which exarcebates the ugliness.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by PHL10

Agree. I'm definitely a Commerce Sq fan.


(credit: Emporis)


(credit: www.commercialcafe.com)

Commerce not offensive at all. It aged well. I'm a fan, but not my favorite. I like Mellon Bank Center more since it was built circa 1990.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Commerce not offensive at all. It aged well. I'm a fan, but not my favorite. I like Mellon Bank Center more since it was built circa 1990.

Ok then , how about something like this for Comcast III .....



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/La_tour_D2_Le_1er_Février_2014.JPG

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Gonzo the Great

Ok then , how about something like this for Comcast III .....



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/La_tour_D2_Le_1er_Février_2014.JPG

Hell yeah to the link for a CC3...and make that at least 1500 ft while we are dreaming this up. Winner winner chicken dinner!!!

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by McBane

My sentiments exactly!

The Aramark building is actually pretty cool. I especially like the curves and variety of tiers/setbacks - certainly beats the square boxes we typically see. While I don't love the cladding, I agree with jsbrook - what's the alternative? Silver/blue glass? It's certainly not even close to being as offensive as the GSK building and it's nice to have something different, if for no other reason than just to break up the monotony of limestone and blue/silver glass. Honestly, when it comes to dreaming up things that would make our skyline nicer, there's probably at least 500 other items I'd rather see done.

If you want to discuss the ugliest building from that era, it has to be Commerce Square. Terribly fat with that awful roof. Doubly bad because they twinned it and the towers stand relatively unobstructed. The best solution is to develop the hell out of the far end of Market Street so that one day Commerce Square can be obstructed. Hard to believe these monstrosities was designed by IM Pei, the same architect that gave us the Society Hill Towers.

+2 re: Commerce Sq. I've wondered if the top section of one of the towers could be heightened and turned into residences. Basically add 10 floors and keep all the details. I think its a much better example of its day then Aramark.

Since we are just dreaming, I have always disliked that the curves on Aramark are made from a series of straight/flat panels. Making curved and insulated glass panels is much more readily doable now, tho still expensive, and to my eye would help this building a lot without changing its basic shape.

[Hrytsyu]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

The former GSK headquarters at 16th & Vine now re-skinned and branded as One Franklin Tower in glass. Not unusual. New tower looks way better than old. Plus Philly's ratio of glass to masonry skyscrapers are low. Until we can really complain of having way too many glass high rises built in this build cycle or the next, it's a hyperbole that the city is saturated with glass high rises as some others have suggested.

Please remember when One Franklin Tower was under construction and the public disappointment expressed when the skin was installed. I vaguely recall the objective was to have masonry elements as representative of Philadelphia's extensive brick history. Unfortunately, the banding did nothing to accentuate further expression of the massing. It was tragically static from the very beginning.

Imagine the Aramark tower without the masonry banding. What would happen to the curves expressed in glass? I shall answer for you. They would disappear.

The curves were intended to relate to the strong form expressed by the lower levels of the PSFS building. The relationship between buildings is easily experienced, both consciously and unconsciously. Masonry banding of the Aramark building makes this all possible.

Furthermore, if the palette is limited to blue glass, all buildings become inconsequential. Please to imagine if One Franklin Plaza were surrounded by all blue glass buildings. There would be no distinction of forms, and hence nothing worth looking at. Next time anyone proceeds north on 16th street from JFK Boulevard, consider what that means.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Reskin the Aramark Building? I can't believe numerous people are seriously pushing for this. It's such a drastic step to take on a skyscraper. It basically only happens if the facade is compromised structurally or it's so ugly that it presents and impediment to leasing. Clearly neither is the case here, with Jefferson committing space it's basically 100% full.

People need to pay more attention to this post. This forum needs less Sim City and more Economics 101.

[JohnIII]

Aramark is good the way it is; it represents a time in Philadelphia when we were moving from the architecture of brick and concrete to glass which is what we see now. Aramark represents the late 1970's and early 1980's form of office space; it was built around 1984 where Commerce Square was built about 1987 through to the early 1990's so its about continuity.
Also, Aramark represents a time that has yet to be complete; in fact we are completing it hopefully now. When Aramark was built Market East was still Department Stores mostly; Strawbridges, Wanamakers, Lit Brothers, Gimbles; there was a time when you had 6 department stores there but the truth is that Aramark was a part of a shift that includes the Gallery I (which was older then Aramark) Gallery II; and the Rail Commuter tunnel so what have is a link between commuter travel, shopping, and office use that Philadelphia had not seen since they built Suburban station. Aramark represents the 2nd manifestation of this shift and now with the rebuilding of Market East; the eventual connection of the Bus Terminal; we are a part of that 3rd manifestation.

If we enjoy seeing Market East develop; then its probable that Aramark as is gives us some enjoyment; we are continuing today what Aramark started! But since we're all giving views my real hope it to see Lit Brothers Tower go up; and see the 2 towers that the Gallery was designed to have added finally be built.

I really want to see the Gallery Towers built because we now can finish and even exceed at doing what was planned when Aramark was built but never fully realized; now we can really get this done; lets make those towers cutting edge; continue the continuity.

[SEFTA]

Good assessment. It is of a period that is currently out of favor. It is not an architectural monument but it was a bold move for urban redevelopment, and they probably took a large risk building there then. It now needs to be surrounded with other towers (even if they're not as tall) and make it a little less dominant in the skyline. It makes the area look dated only because there has been very little built around it since then.
I like the direction East Market is going. I think it's success will only be limited by the larger economy.

[AbortedWalrus]

I can't be the only one who actually likes the way Aramark looks, can I?

[Frontst17]

Aramark is a gem and I think will stand out in years to come although relatively under appreciated now. The only think I’d say is the glass is a bit dark they can replace that imo

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

I can't be the only one who actually likes the way Aramark looks, can I?

I like it as well. Not one of my top 10 buildings in the city by any means, but I do like it quite a bit.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

I like it as well. Not one of my top 10 buildings in the city by any means, but I do like it quite a bit.

Geez ......

[iheartphilly]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...-jewelers-row-tower-philly-20171219.html

Toll gets new permit for Jewelers Row residential tower

Would like to see this happen sooner rather than later. Not sure if it will have an impact on the skyline tho.

[summersm343]

Here’s What Was Accomplished at Penn’s Pennovation Center This Year

Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/business/2017/1...vation-philadelphia/#AUAmzS5IP8gKyFcG.99