Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

Would you mind elaborating on this? Why would induced demand apply to the construction of new roadways but not work in the opposite direction? Are you suggesting that people cannot decide to take other forms of transportation? Because the statistics in Vancouver and other cities across the world would seem to say otherwise. The amount of people driving in this city has been steadily decreasing over the past few years.



Sure, you may never stop driving your car, but that just makes you stubborn. It doesn't say anything about the rest of the population, who are able to make marginal changes in their daily habits.

I am not sure what statistics and where say otherwise? The only thing I am aware of is that mobility and economic activity are closely related. Successful regions give people options instead of limit their options.

Originally Posted by mezzanine

don't let it scare you off. welcome to vancity.

FWIW, along with some locals with varying levels of satisfaction here, for some reason we have people who report they are from places like paris and prague, seem not to be here a lot, but have a lot of opinion about vancouver and post on a regular basis. i think you'll be right at home on the forum whether in MB or BC....

I am from Vancouver, spent decades there. I just left this year and until very recently I was still working remote back to Vancouver. Heck I was there for a few weeks last month. And although I am pissed off about some things (best way to describe it) I am still deeply interested in the city and the direction it keeps heading.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

......../edit/......
Yes Vancouver has neglected its auto infrastructure, ...........

That being said i still would like to see a tunnel bypass downtown.

That is what I'd like, yet something in the civic mentality seems dead against tunnels for some reason. Mention a crosstown tunnel or such, and you'll get any number of reasons "NO!"

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

P.s. the winnipeg page is much friendlier and less hostile than the vancouver page...

You're the one who came here with the "reality checks" and condescending comments like "It seems like none of you have ever heard of induced traffic." I just responded in kind. If you wanted cuddles and smiles you could have introduced yourself to the discussion better.

[goldenboi]

Well it seems like we all agree that if the viaducts are to be torn down, there needs to be some sort of replacement, whether it be roads or transit. I think it would be a good idea to use these sort of projects as leverage for more transit investment. Similar to requiring developers to replace rental units that they demolish.

[goldenboi]

Originally Posted by Pinion

You're the one who came here with the "reality checks" and condescending comments like "It seems like none of you have ever heard of induced traffic." I just responded in kind. If you wanted cuddles and smiles you could have introduced yourself to the discussion better.

Haha sorry about that.. It's so easy to sound condescending on the internet.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Pinion

No I'm comparing my ACTUAL COMMUTING OPTIONS IN REAL LIFE right now. It takes me 20 minutes by car and over an hour by transit when I have to be at work by 7am. Missed connections are a daily thing. Why do you deny reality? Maybe instead you should adjust your point of view to match reality?

Hey I'm not going to deny your reality. It must be pretty bad to be missing multiple transit connections every day...

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

I guess the counter point to my own arguement is that Seattle is spending something like $54B on transit in their current capital plans.

We should probably be doing something of almost similar scale.

Seattle/King County is actually able to put Billion dollar transit spending funded by sales tax increases on a ballot and have it pass.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That is what I'd like, yet something in the civic mentality seems dead against tunnels for some reason. Mention a crosstown tunnel or such, and you'll get any number of reasons "NO!"

no, just one reason: money.

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

Winnipeg actually has great traffic. Downtown is almost never gridlocked, even during rush hour. Although people still think that we have a traffic problem. Just goes to show that no matter how bad the problem is, people will always complain.

Having grown up in Winnipeg, you do have a point. It is relatively easy to get across town and there are no freeways. Unfortunately, it has also come at the cost of the city largely being a devoid wasteland that has no real life. Tradeoffs I guess.

[Gordon]

We need the government to allow whichever funding tool Translink chooses. That should give them enough funding to fund the 10 year plan.

The taxpayers federation is in favor of another referendum

[goldenboi]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

Having grown up in Winnipeg, you do have a point. It is relatively easy to get across town and there are no freeways. Unfortunately, it has also come at the cost of the city largely being a devoid wasteland that has no real life. Tradeoffs I guess.

My point was more to emphasize that people complain about traffic no matter how good or bad it is. People in Winnipeg seem to think we have the worst traffic in the world.

Btw, I wouldn't say that Winnipeg is devoid of any life. We have our fair share of vibrant walkable neighbourhoods. Exchange District, Osborne Village, West Broadway, West End, Wolseley, River Heights, Central Park. Not to mention we have one of the best arts and cultural scenes in Canada and we have actual diversity because our housing prices are affordable.

But this is all horribly off topic. Viaducts, right?

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

My point was more to emphasize that people complain about traffic no matter how good or bad it is. People in Winnipeg seem to think we have the worst traffic in the world.

Btw, I wouldn't say that Winnipeg is devoid of any life. We have our fair share of vibrant walkable neighbourhoods. Exchange District, Osborne Village, West Broadway, West End, Wolseley, River Heights, Central Park. Not to mention we have one of the best arts and cultural scenes in Canada and we have actual diversity because our housing prices are affordable.

But this is all horribly off topic. Viaducts, right?

This has been one of the funniest things for me since I've come there. Also the idea that it has high taxes.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

This has been one of the funniest things for me since I've come there. Also the idea that it has high taxes.

It's all relative.

Sometimes Vancouverites should try commuting elsewhere. Coming back to Vancouver from Toronto I find the complaints about traffic here as humerous as someone from Vancouver would find Winnipeg's.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

It's all relative.

Sometimes Vancouverites should try commuting elsewhere. Coming back to Vancouver from Toronto I find the complaints about traffic here as humerous as someone from Vancouver would find Winnipeg's.

Amen to that! Ditto Seattle, or other large US cities... Chicago, Houston, Dallas. Literal nightmares.

[Vin]

Amen, ditto indeed!


http://bc.ctvnews.ca/vancouver-is-canada-s-worst-city-to-drive-in-study-claims-1.3609105


Published Wednesday, September 27, 2017 2:35PM PDT
Last Updated Wednesday, September 27, 2017 7:20PM PDT

Ranked 48th out of 100 cities worldwide, Vancouver is the worst Canadian city to drive in on a list compiled by a German online car parts retailer.
The study conducted by kfzteile24 aimed to uncover the 50 best and 50 worst cities for drivers.
Those behind the study included five Canadian metropolitan areas: Calgary, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa and Vancouver.


Metro Vancouver came in around the halfway point, but ranked significantly worse than the other Canadian cities. Calgary fared best at 10th overall, while Montreal and Toronto were in 13th and 14th places and Ottawa came in 22nd.

The ranking was based on several factors, including congestion, cost of parking, pollution, collisions, road rage, road condition and rate of collisions. More information on how the calculations were made is available on kfzteile24's website.

With all scores in hand, a final ranking was established, and Dusseldorf, Germany came in first. Kolkata, India ranked last.
While Vancouver was in the middle of the pack overall, the city came in 71st when it came to traffic congestion. Congestion level was calculated based on the TomTom Traffic Index, and delays caused by temporary construction work were not taken into account.

Calgary scored well in the congestion category, coming in fourth. Ottawa was 27th, Montreal 31st and Toronto 41st.
Vancouver's former manager of traffic and data management, Steve Brown, said the city's "poor" ranking can be attributed to how the measurements were chosen.
Brown, who now serves as rapid transit manager, said TomTom evaluates congestion by calculating the difference between free-flowing traffic times and peak period times.
Under this system, cities that are always congested could rank higher than areas like Metro Vancouver, where traffic often moves well outside of rush hours.
Brown added that it should be noted Vancouver ranks highest in Canada for walkability (LINK), and that about half of trips in the city are taken by foot, bicycle or transit, not by private vehicle.
"Additionally, we have seen a 32 per cent decrease in distance driven per person since 2007," Brown said in a statement to CTV News.
He added that Vancouver implemented a congestion management system in the spring which includes monitoring trends and using technology to analyze and manage travel time.

While Vancouver ranked poorly in congestion, it was rated as being better than Hong Kong, Beunos Aires, Moscow, Bangkok, Los Angeles and other major cities. The city with the least congestion is Bern, Switzerland.
When the cities are ranked by gas price – a calculation based on prices on Aug. 18, converted to U.S. dollars – Vancouver ranks 31st. The city with the lowest prices is Lagos, Nigeria, according to the study. Seattle came in 7th, the other Canadian cities in 27th to 30th, and Hong Kong in last place.

The company behind the study said it hopes the results will be used to encourage cities to learn from others.
"Poor urban planning or a lack of civil education can make driving the most stressful experience of somebody's day," chief marketing officer Thomas Kloubert said in a statement.
"We hope that this study will act as a catalyst for those cities in the negative end of the ranking to invest in safer, cleaner and more efficient roads, and consider how methods adopted by higher scoring cities can be utilized in their own locations."



More to read about traffic congestion studies in Vancouver: Same amount of traffic, but increase in congestions.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/bri...portation-director-says/article35013405/

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

My point was more to emphasize that people complain about traffic no matter how good or bad it is. People in Winnipeg seem to think we have the worst traffic in the world.

Moving to Kelowna last winter, I was taken aback when people kept telling me how bad traffic was going to be once the weather improved. All spring, I kept hearing about the snowbirds returning and the start of summer tourism combining to create carmageddon. Come summer, sure, there was an uptick, but I could still cross half the city in 15 minutes on its one road at rush-hour without any real issues at all.

People complain. It's what they do.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

Winnipeg actually has great traffic. Downtown is almost never gridlocked, even during rush hour. Although people still think that we have a traffic problem. Just goes to show that no matter how bad the problem is, people will always complain.

A couple of decades ago I remember my uncle grumbling about the traffic in Thunder Bay when we pulled up to a traffic light with 5 vehicles waiting...

[mezzanine]

yeah, Vancouver has its issues, but I'm not sure where people get that it's the worst for traffic.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/171129/dq171129c-eng.htm

The average commuting time increased by over one minute in both Vancouver and Toronto from 2011 to 2016. Vancouver still had the shortest average commuting time of the three largest CMAs at 29.7 minutes, just below Montréal's 30.0 minutes, while Toronto had the longest at 34.0 minutes.

This was also interesting wrt to the viaducts/NEFC:

Among the three largest CMAs over the 20-year period, the median one-way commuting distance edged down for workers with a usual place of work in Vancouver, from 7.7 km to 7.4 km. Meanwhile, it edged up in Toronto (from 9.3 km to 9.6 km) and was unchanged in Montréal (8.2 km).

[mezzanine]

This also warms my heart:

Among the three largest CMAs, however, Vancouver had the largest growth in the proportion of public transit commuters from 1996 to 2016, increasing 6.1 percentage points to 20.4%.

The Vancouver area saw two major expansions of the Vancouver SkyTrain transit system, opening a total of 53 additional kilometres (km) of commuter rail in 2002 and 2009. This expansion nearly tripled the total track length to 82 km. In addition to expanding the bus fleet by over 250 buses from 2005 to 2009, these changes could explain part of the increase in the proportion of public transit commuters in Vancouver over this 20-year period. This increase significantly narrowed the gaps in the proportion of workers using public transit compared with the other two largest CMAs.

(link from above)

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

To be fair, seattle has more roads and more space so it seems like it has worse traffic.....however I-5, SR520, and I-90 traffic is similar to Vancouvers BC99, TCH1 and BC99. Not to mention Seattle has twice the area and more than half the population density. But to its credit..its rush hours are less than Vancouver and it doesnt have the obstacles of waterfront.

Yes Vancouver has neglected its auto infrastructure, but even if it were to overcome its shortcomings, new roads induce more SOV traffic. Miami is the worst example. All roads are now being widened but by the time they are done with construction......traffic is no better than it is before the construction. Road construction only exists to keep people/corporations who collect the tolls employed.

That being said i still would like to see a tunnel bypass downtown.

the viaducts were built for an east-side freeway that never happened. so build a tunnel with portals south of gore/prior, southwards under the new hospital (before it is built), and the railway yards. eastwards under evans ave, jog east to 1st ave and eastwards to the east portal at boundary. connect the viaducts to the tunnel. other access portals at major n-s streets along 1st ave, as well as trans-canada hwy

likely a similar price to repair and reuse the viaducts and build the tunnel, as the current cost to knock them over and build larger expo/ pacific blvds to replace them

victoria and ottawa likely will chip 1/3 each for construction, which they are reluctant to do for demolition, making the city share nearly the same for building vs demo