Amazon HQ2 thread

[mhays]

Dallas has NOTHING like Seattle's transit. You've got to be kidding.

Ever look at ridership? Dallas' is trying, but it's still pathetic ridership vs. the sorta ok for Seattle. In 2015 the Census ACS had Dallas residents commuting by transit at 4.3%. That's bad for a suburb let alone a central city. King County, which is 2.1 mil including Seattle, had 12.1%. The city of Seattle itself had 20.1%, plus dramatically higher bike and walk rates too.

Amazon's new buildings range from about 1 parking space per four workers to one per six or seven workers closer-in. I suspect that even a 1 per 2 would be breaking new ground in Dallas.

If they're going for "opposite of Seattle" Dallas might have a good chance.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Yup, which is why I'm not taking this all that seriously. Public transit was an emphasis point in the RFP, a big one at that. Makes me wonder if WSJ didn't conduct their analysis with full News Corp-colored glasses on.

I’m sure that was the case.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by mhays

Dallas has NOTHING like Seattle's transit. You've got to be kidding.

Dallas has significantly more extensive rail transit than Seattle. But Seattle is much more transit-oriented, obviously.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by killaviews

Another big caveat, the don't consider public transport. That seems to be a major consideration for Amazon.

Boston, Dallas and Washington all have rail transit with connections to their airports.

This was posted in the Dallas city compilation thread. DART Orange line Victory station with direct access to DFW and Trinity Rail to Ft. Worth. Not a bad location for an HQ2 proposal. Also freeway access which is important because the execs won't take public transit.

Originally Posted by jshdodd

http://dallas.towers.net/2017/10/04/victory-park-joins-crowd-of-proposals-for-amazon-hq2/

[MolsonExport]

Beautiful view of that freeway.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Boston, Dallas and Washington all have rail transit with connections to their airports.

This was posted in the Dallas city compilation thread. DART Orange line Victory station with direct access to DFW and Trinity Rail to Ft. Worth. Not a bad location for an HQ2 proposal. Also freeway access which is important because the execs won't take public transit.

Many execs do. But even senior execs don’t necessarily need freeway access in many places. They would be living downtown.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Beautiful view of that freeway.

Yeah the freeway doesn't offer spectacular views, but it's probably a bit more scenic than Route 1A along the Boston proposal at Suffolk Downs -- which also has direct airport access via the Blue Line subway, but is far from the glamorous parts of the city. This is autotopia Boston, not the image most people think of.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3979913,...ITz-MMK2lmTc5PEcDvOUA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3985797,...VqfnYW7iE7RsNWg-jcPxQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[MidTenn1]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Atlanta was tied for #3 with DC.

Going down the list, Chicago, Nashville and Minneapolis also made the top 10 (#4, #6 and #9 respectively)

An alternate, readable presentation of the WSJ page....from RealDeal...

Trying to figure out the best city for Amazon’s HQ2 has become a virtual cottage industry since the tech giant announced it was planning a second headquarters, and a new ranking puts Dallas at the top of the list.
The ranking put together by the Wall Street Journal ranks cities based on six factors: tech labor force, fiscal health, cost of living, college population, culture fit and state tax rank. Based on this criteria, it found that Dallas would be the ideal fit for HQ2, based partly on the lack of a state income tax in Texas.

Boston came in second on the overall rankings, followed by a tie between Atlanta and Washington D.C. at number three, Chicago at number four and Atlanta at number five. New York was tied for sixth with Nashville.

As far as Nashville's transit situation is concerned, there will be a vote on a 5 billion dollar plan in May to fund light rail, BRT, commuter rail and upgraded bus service.



One other thing Nashville has going for it in addition to a shovel ready, 105 acre site currently proposed as River North...



....is this...

"From the River North site, Amazon would literally be within walking distance of, not only Germantown via a pedestrian bridge, but also up and coming Cleveland Park and even East Nashville for the more ambitious souls. "At the very least, they would be a short shuttle, Uber or bike ride away from home for 10's of thousands of their employees. That's better for employees and the planet than shipping them to some distant 'burb, even by train. What other city brings that to the table?"

Yeah, I'm a Nashville 'homer', no doubt. I'm realistic and know getting the HQ2 is a long shot. But I have witnessed Nashville over-achieving in the not so distant past by getting two major sports franchises, becoming one of the nations fastest growing cities with one of the fastest growing skylines and solidifying its position as America;s 'Music City'.

So, I won't completely dismiss our chances.

Apparently, 'The Wall Street Journal' isn't either.

[C.]

Here's some renderings of Camden's HQ2 proposal. Isn't it fantastic?






Image Source

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Boston, Dallas and Washington all have rail transit with connections to their airports.

This was posted in the Dallas city compilation thread. DART Orange line Victory station with direct access to DFW and Trinity Rail to Ft. Worth. Not a bad location for an HQ2 proposal. Also freeway access which is important because the execs won't take public transit.

VP is a great area. Would be crowded in that sport with HQ2 there but seems like the obvious choice for Dallas.

As for the views of the freeway, they could always eventually bury it like they did the Woodall Rogers by McKinney Ave on the other side of downtown.

[C.]

Post renderings of your favorite Amazon HQ2 proposal.

One more from a joint proposal from El Paso, Juarez, and Sunland Park, New Mexico


The Amazon campus will be at half in the United States and half in Mexico. It will also intersect the Texas and New Mexico state line.

[img]U.S. Border Patrol agents would be stationed on the campus, according to Davin Lopez, president and CEO of MVEDA. However, other details about how to keep the campus secure on the border will have to be discussed, he said.
"It's not unprecedented to have a private sector border crossing," Lopez told CNN Tech. "With all the different discussions that are taking place in D.C. regarding amnesty and immigration ... This is a different solution. It's an opportunity for the private sector such as Amazon to be part of that answer."
"Instead of building bridges or walls, we're building a border economy here," he added.
If chosen, Lopez expects the new facility would boost the economies of both the U.S. and Mexico.[/img]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/27/technology/amazon-hq2-new-mexico-bid/index.html

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by mhays

Dallas has NOTHING like Seattle's transit. You've got to be kidding.

Ever look at ridership? Dallas' is trying, but it's still pathetic ridership vs. the sorta ok for Seattle. In 2015 the Census ACS had Dallas residents commuting by transit at 4.3%. That's bad for a suburb let alone a central city. King County, which is 2.1 mil including Seattle, had 12.1%. The city of Seattle itself had 20.1%, plus dramatically higher bike and walk rates too.

Amazon's new buildings range from about 1 parking space per four workers to one per six or seven workers closer-in. I suspect that even a 1 per 2 would be breaking new ground in Dallas.

If they're going for "opposite of Seattle" Dallas might have a good chance.

I seriously don't understand why some posters are still pushing DART. The data doesn't lie. DART is awful. Someone has posted the per capita ridership numbers for the big four in Texas two+ times by now. We don't need to go through this every 3 pages of this thread. DART is only extensive because of the sprawling nature of DFW, not demand.

[mhays]

How "shovel ready" is that Nashville site? Shovel-ready would normally imply that at least land use permits are already in hand, or guaranteed, with only building permits remaining. In other words, all the politics and debate is over.

Personally I suspect that a site integrated with an existing downtown would have a better chance, but who knows.

[10023]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I seriously don't understand why some posters are still pushing DART. The data doesn't lie. DART is awful. Someone has posted the per capita ridership numbers for the big four in Texas two+ times by now. We don't need to go through this every 3 pages of this thread. DART is only extensive because of the sprawling nature of DFW, not demand.

I was going to say... it seems like there are a lot of track miles, but stations are sparse and not located in transit-friendly areas. It’s a commuter rail based on park & ride, not a high-frequency mass transit system.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I seriously don't understand why some posters are still pushing DART. The data doesn't lie. DART is awful. Someone has posted the per capita ridership numbers for the big four in Texas two+ times by now. We don't need to go through this every 3 pages of this thread. DART is only extensive because of the sprawling nature of DFW, not demand.

DART is 'awful' today bc it's first opening of their initial line is only 19 years old. The airport connection just opened recently.

Dallas cannot be expected to magically transform overnight. Dallas stands to progress quite differently in the future than from their past with the investment in a pretty substantial rail network.

[Sun Belt]

I should state that I honestly don't care which city Amazon decides to choose for HQ2. There are dozens of legitimate proposals around the country. I don't have a preference for Dallas or any other city. Dallas is a contender based off of Amazon's requirements regarding access to public transportation in an urban environment within close proximity to a major airport.

The contest has been fun to consider the numerous options being offered to Amazon.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I seriously don't understand why some posters are still pushing DART. The data doesn't lie. DART is awful. Someone has posted the per capita ridership numbers for the big four in Texas two+ times by now. We don't need to go through this every 3 pages of this thread. DART is only extensive because of the sprawling nature of DFW, not demand.

There could be a bright side for Dallas. Once the lines exist it should be relatively easy to add service so at least they're more frequent. Likewise the influx of Amazon workers living near their offices would be substantial, potentially creating the sort of urban environment (or a Dallas-type car-heavy version) that Amazon is accustomed to. They can also do shuttle buses to fill in the transit gaps.

In the spirit of "what Amazon is used to" (and defending my city), King County's 12.1% would equal roughly 8% for suburban Seattle to combine with the in-city 20.1%. It's easy math since Seattle is 1/3 of the county's population. Many cities with celebrated transit systems would be a major step down transitwise.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

DART is 'awful' today bc it's first opening of their initial line is only 19 years old. The airport connection just opened recently.

Dallas cannot be expected to magically transform overnight. Dallas stands to progress quite differently in the future than from their past with the investment in a pretty substantial rail network.

I can't think of any reason why DART would be more successful in the future than in the past.

Dallas has never been more sprawly, decentralized or auto oriented than today. U.S. transit ridership is dropping overall, even in cities where transit makes sense. Dallas has decent incomes and easy mobility. Cars are cheap in the U.S. Dallas is hot and getting hotter. Why would the city ever be transit-oriented?

You can lease a brand new car for $150 or so. Outside of the poor and some uber-urbanite types, how many people are gonna take public transit in a place like Dallas, where everything is oriented around auto mobility?

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I can't think of any reason why DART would be more successful in the future than in the past.

Dallas has never been more sprawly, decentralized or auto oriented than today. U.S. transit ridership is dropping overall, even in cities where transit makes sense. Dallas has decent incomes and easy mobility. Cars are cheap in the U.S. Dallas is hot and getting hotter. Why would the city ever be transit-oriented?

You can lease a brand new car for $150 or so. Outside of the poor and some uber-urbanite types, how many people are gonna take public transit in a place like Dallas, where everything is oriented around auto mobility?

Not one reason?

Abundant potential for new TOD infill near stations?

We've seen success with other relatively low density sprawly cities like Denver and Phoenix.

DART will always be more of a developmental tool than a congestion reliever. It might even be just enough to attract something like HQ2! It's used to create nodes of higher density mixed use areas that 'talented' people prefer to call home.

I agree with you that public transportation networks face headwinds because of the changing technology being implemented with autonomous - ride share companies.

A city has to start somewhere in their timeline. Dallas or any other city that is making a commitment to a rail network today will probably be recognized as the turning point in their urban fabric of the future.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by 10023

I was going to say... it seems like there are a lot of track miles, but stations are sparse and not located in transit-friendly areas. It’s a commuter rail based on park & ride, not a high-frequency mass transit system.

That is exactly what DART is in my recollection. My experience with DART is over a decade old, but sounds like it might still be current. The train line I used did have a lot of track miles, but only because it is an attempt to connect downtown to some very sprawled out and car-centric areas. I took the DART from downtown Dallas, which is reasonably pedestrian friendly, to one of the malls that was supposedly accessible from the train line. It felt like about a 20-30 minute ride on the train with only a handful of stops between downtown and the mall. From the stop it was a pretty long walk to the actual mall itself (maybe half a mile?), a lot of it through the malls sprawling parking lot. There was no transit oriented development around that stop to speak of at the time.