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  #5561  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2017, 10:46 PM
Franco401 Franco401 is offline
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propaganda video
You understand that vehicles are not an oppressed population, right? You're making a fool of yourself and not addressing any of the arguments made in favour of this project. Just stop.
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  #5562  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2017, 12:18 PM
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You understand that vehicles are not an oppressed population, right? You're making a fool of yourself and not addressing any of the arguments made in favour of this project. Just stop.
The arguments in favor are foolish. If Grafton had been made one-way northbound all of this would have been moot (aside from the elimination of street parking). By not doing so, HRM has created what will become a large problem.
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  #5563  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2017, 1:46 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Look at that picture of Grafton. Last time I checked it was a 2-way street. How are 2 lanes of traffic supposed to pass on it now?

As for parking, the reality is that the spots that used to be on Argyle and Grafton were always very well-used. By people patronizing those businesses for the most part. Those people now will likely go elsewhere. That is reality in this town.
The Nova Centre itself will have far more public parking than what's been lost on Argyle and Grafton.

I have no idea why people are so resistant to simply parking in a garage rather than on the street, but if we want a healthy downtown, we can't just kowtow to the demand for free surface/street parking. A tiny bit of social engineering has to happen. People will have to put their cars in a garage whether they like it or not.
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  #5564  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2017, 3:08 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Honestly I don't see that much traffic happening on Grafton since it's not a thoroughfare to go anywhere anymore (and hasn't been for a long time). It has been cut off on either end by the Scotiabank Centre on one end and the Nova Centre on the other, so the only cars driving there will either be dropping people off/picking them up, parking in the Prince George parkade or circling around the block (though that will even happen less now that there's no parking on the street). And the aforementioned delivery trucks, the drivers of which I'm sure will be elated that there is no more on-street parking.

I'm actually struggling very hard to try to find something negative to say about the streetscaping, except to say that it took them too long to do it.

This coming from a person (me) who really enjoys cars and driving them - take it for what it's worth. IMHO there's nothing about this project that is worth the time and effort to complain about.
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  #5565  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2017, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
The arguments in favor are foolish. If Grafton had been made one-way northbound all of this would have been moot (aside from the elimination of street parking). By not doing so, HRM has created what will become a large problem.
Don't see any follish agruments here.

This is very postive downtown. It will create much more foot traffic which makes for a much more vibrant and pleasant city. It is a win win for the businesses in the area because there will be more people walking around and people walking are much more likely to stop at shop or get a drink or eat then people in cars.

And this is coming from someone who drives all the time.
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  #5566  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2017, 9:23 AM
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So excited to see this in person. Looks beautiful and a massive improvement over the creaky, clunky temporary walkways that were a consequence of the dining patios.

I wish the back side of the Prince George Hotel addressed Grafton Street a bit better. I always wonder what kind of opportunity exists to retrofit a shallow shop or food outlet to blank walls like that on the corner of Grafton and Prince.

Downing Street in Moncton looks like a great improvement too. Seems to make the relationship between Main Street and the riverfront much more legible.
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  #5567  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2017, 2:44 PM
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No development should a blank wall at street level. Scotia Square was a mistake back in the 60's and it seems to still be done even today. Barrington St. is dead across from the Delta Barrington Hotel. I believe there is equipment behind that wall as the reason it can't be changed, but it is a very poor design.
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  #5568  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 3:36 PM
eastcoastal eastcoastal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Honestly I don't see that much traffic happening on Grafton since it's not a thoroughfare to go anywhere anymore (and hasn't been for a long time). It has been cut off on either end by the Scotiabank Centre on one end and the Nova Centre on the other, so the only cars driving there will either be dropping people off/picking them up, parking in the Prince George parkade or circling around the block (though that will even happen less now that there's no parking on the street). And the aforementioned delivery trucks, the drivers of which I'm sure will be elated that there is no more on-street parking.

I'm actually struggling very hard to try to find something negative to say about the streetscaping, except to say that it took them too long to do it.

This coming from a person (me) who really enjoys cars and driving them - take it for what it's worth. IMHO there's nothing about this project that is worth the time and effort to complain about.
Also struggling hard to find negatives other than the timing/length of time. I'm still not a huge fan of the Nova Centre - I think it's the wrong scale and relationship with the street for that part of town... I think it's shameful that the public street was basically sold... BUT... I hope it's not going to kill the street vibe. I hope the businesses survive the building construction THEN streetscaping work... I feel like it's not worse than what was there before (but reserve the right to wish for better, not just newer).

I think the streetscaping is making the best of what that part of town has to offer. I look forward to it becoming part of our city.
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  #5569  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 2:32 AM
RoshanMcG RoshanMcG is offline
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Aaaand Argyle street finally has canopy lights!


Source
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  #5570  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 3:15 PM
miesh111 miesh111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alps View Post
So excited to see this in person. Looks beautiful and a massive improvement over the creaky, clunky temporary walkways that were a consequence of the dining patios.

I wish the back side of the Prince George Hotel addressed Grafton Street a bit better. I always wonder what kind of opportunity exists to retrofit a shallow shop or food outlet to blank walls like that on the corner of Grafton and Prince.

Downing Street in Moncton looks like a great improvement too. Seems to make the relationship between Main Street and the riverfront much more legible.
The 'blank wall' that the Prince George has is actually parking stalls. With the right incentives and market conditions, these type of spaces are regularly converted to small retail in other cities. If the Argyle Grafton project brings the success everyone believes it will, if the Nova Centre retail spaces fill up, and if the hotel sees the opportunity, these parking stalls could easily be turned into another restaurant or other retail.
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  #5571  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 3:37 PM
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  #5572  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 4:18 PM
mleblanc mleblanc is offline
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Front enterance looks great, can only improve once they clean all the dirt/dust off the entire building
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  #5573  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2017, 4:13 PM
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Europe or Halifax?

New

Photo edited to remove kids
Source: Twitter

Old
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  #5574  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2017, 6:39 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Looks nice. Yuppification of Argyle will drive commercial property taxes higher in 2-3 years.
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  #5575  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2017, 9:04 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Looks nice. Yuppification of Argyle will drive commercial property taxes higher in 2-3 years.
Only until access problems drive most of the businesses under.
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  #5576  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2017, 10:05 PM
Franco401 Franco401 is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Only until access problems drive most of the businesses under.
Give it a goddamn rest. Countless examples in dozens of other cites across North America show how incredibly wrong you are on this. The idea that people will avoid Argyle at all costs just because parking is reduced and you can't zip right up the block at 60km/h has been universally rejected in planning for most of this century, and for good reason.
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  #5577  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2017, 2:08 AM
mleblanc mleblanc is offline
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Originally Posted by Franco401 View Post
Give it a goddamn rest. Countless examples in dozens of other cites across North America show how incredibly wrong you are on this. The idea that people will avoid Argyle at all costs just because parking is reduced and you can't zip right up the block at 60km/h has been universally rejected in planning for most of this century, and for good reason.
Been ingoring Keith for as long as I can remember on this forum. His pessimism is cancerous for discussion. Not even sure why he posts anymore if he's never happy about anything going on.
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  #5578  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2017, 4:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mleblanc View Post
Been ingoring Keith for as long as I can remember on this forum. His pessimism is cancerous for discussion. Not even sure why he posts anymore if he's never happy about anything going on.
Keith does bring a dose of realism and pragmatism to the forum, but in this particular case he is dead wrong.........
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  #5579  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2017, 1:05 PM
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I recently returned after touring a number of European cities, virtually all of which, big and small, had pedestrian and vehicle-restricted business streets, all of which were vibrant and exciting places to be: Zurich, Prague, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Gothenburg. In Oslo we were delighted to find that the five blocks between our hotel and Central Station could be walked on pedestrian streets. Zermatt, famously, prohibits private vehicles on all its streets. (Though better keep your head up: shuttles and service vehicles are everywhere.)

If there is a flaw in the Argyle Street redevelopment, in my opinion, is that it encompasses only half of the street: the remaining two blocks should have been completed at the same time. All of that said, we have a great resistance to change in this corner of the continent and acceptance will not come overnight for many people. A buddy heading to Neptune on the weekend was bemoaning the loss of parking, even though the overall number of spaces closed on the two blocks is minimal. Saturday's street party was a good start but it will take much more effort to bring people to the street and keep them there.

Copenhagen's Strøget is said to be one of the world's longest car-free streets:

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  #5580  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2017, 2:30 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Copenhagen's Strøget is said to be one of the world's longest car-free streets:


Yet in virtually every case where a "pedestrian mall" has been tried in Canada it has been a total failure.
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