The real problem with Vancouver’s outrageous house prices

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Are you kidding? a lot of your points about real estate regress to anti-chinese / anti-immigrant demagoguery as the 'remedy' for high vancouver prices.

You seem really unhappy, to the point of dehumanizing large groups of people based on culture and ethnicity. Not addressing inequality and class with regards to the idea of real estate and "home", but looking at culture and ethnicity. It's a free market of ideas here, but I am sorry that you feel that way.
______



Like what?




this thought came from a post about vancouver as a tech hub, that went on to luxury cars, to this.



For those that moved to montreal.

Just out of curiosity, is your ethnic background Chinese? Because you seem pretty defensive and eager to equate the foreign buyer problem with “all immigration”. The fact is the true immigrants are those that are hurt the most by money being moved/laundered out of China. Our biggest source of immigrants are the Philippines and India, generally not groups arriving with a silver spoon in their mouth.

And yes what has been done to real estate prices is akin to locusts descending on a city. Every affordable house in Vancouver, Richmond and Burnaby has been devoured, you’re in the minority if you disagree. I’m completely fine with wealthy Chinese buyers sneaking their money out of their own country being demonized, zero qualms about it at all.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by logan5

The cost of living in New West is actually a bit lower than in Calgary (that's including rent), ...

How do you figure??

According to Rentboard (NW and Calg), all categories are cheaper in Calgary. And then there's food (same or cheaper in Calgary), Gas (much cheaper), insurance (way cheaper), clothes (same), buying a house (much cheaper), no provincal sales tax, monthly transit passes (2/3's cheaper), etc, etc.

So how do you figure is "a bit lower"??

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by cornholio

New Westminster is about 45 minutes transit to downtown unless your thinking of going from station to station which statistically is a pretty big exception to the norm. In fact its at least that far to most major job centers. Sure you might have a job closer, maybe your partner will as well, but not everyone can fall in that category (literally because there are not enough jobs close to New Westminster, yet alone good jobs). Also keep in mind that is 45 minutes by transit, crowded transit, with transfers. If it was 45 minutes on a train, no transfers beyond some short walking on either end, with wifi and a seat fine, a bit long, but you can make productive use of your commute time instead of just losing it and at most listening to music for 90 minutes every day. And the crowding, it will get much much worse. That is one thing people don't do, they don't extrapolate the trends, population growth, future infrastructure improvements and so and so forth.

At the end of the day New Westminster is a far flung suburb where most people with decent jobs have a 30-45 min one way commute, and a commute that will get only worse.



I left but it was easy for me as I had roots elsewhere. But I did do something, I see that the quickest solution is lowering immigration rates through all streams, that should be the first move. Then when you have breathing room you can begin to look at everything else. First slow down the leak before looking for a bigger pale. I joined the conservative party of Canada because they had some candidates that proposed to lower the quotas to 2015 levels (which is a nearly 30% reduction from today). I voted NDP because they are the ones that can expedite the inevitable fall in the regions quality of life, and as a result maybe get people motivated to start looking at the real problems and real solutions. I did enough. And I moved because I am not about to wait for decades for things to maybe start changing because once I looked at what will happen over the next 10 to 20 years I realized I would be better off betting everything I have on black, on the roulette table. In Vegas. Then to stay in Vancouver.

My tactics might sound harsh, they might even piss you off. But I think long and hard about what I do. Also I respect your opinion, you want to be invested in this city, your life here is not so bad, and you want its image to be positive. Fair enough. Positive thinking is great. It can also get you in trouble when you don't jump ship soon enough and end up losing too much time. Time you can't ever get back.

In what world is New Westminster a far-flung suburb? If it is then what's Delta, Surrey, Coquitlam, Maple Ridge or Langley? You make it sound like living outside Vancouver city limits is incomprehensible.

Not everyone works downtown. There are plenty of jobs you can access from New West that aren't as far. And even if you do work in Vancouver, 45 minutes is not a long commute.

You remind me of when I went to UBC and kids would complain to me about their long commutes from the East Side...while I was going from Ladner 1.5 hours each way.

I say all this because while I do think there needs to be a much greater effort on bringing in affordability, I hate the perspective that some people have where they feel entitled to live in the city proper. If everyone could afford to live in the city we'd have much less of a need for the suburbs. My issue is that even the suburbs with their relative affordability are still unrealistically expensive. There's nothing wrong with having to move a little further to be able to afford housing - that's how it's been forever. Just right now, even that's becoming less of an option.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

In what world is New Westminster a far-flung suburb? If it is then what's Delta, Surrey, Coquitlam, Maple Ridge or Langley? You make it sound like living outside Vancouver city limits is incomprehensible.

Not everyone works downtown. There are plenty of jobs you can access from New West that aren't as far. And even if you do work in Vancouver, 45 minutes is not a long commute.

You remind me of when I went to UBC and kids would complain to me about their long commutes from the East Side...while I was going from Ladner 1.5 hours each way.

Yeah, I have to agree. Jobs are shifting outwards from downtown Vancouver as well to office buildings in north Surrey, which isn't that far from New West. There are also a ton of jobs at the towers at Metrotown, BC Hydro is at Edmonds, EA is somewhere in Burnaby, and there'll probably be more decent jobs coming online at Lougheed as that area develops. And hell, there are going to be more office jobs coming into New West as well as the Anvil Centre slowly fills up.

And the whole "commute will only get worse" is kind of malarky as well, as it assumes that TransLink isn't going to do anything to increase service on the Expo line.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by shreddog

How do you figure??

According to Rentboard (NW and Calg), all categories are cheaper in Calgary. And then there's food (same or cheaper in Calgary), Gas (much cheaper), insurance (way cheaper), clothes (same), buying a house (much cheaper), no provincal sales tax, monthly transit passes (2/3's cheaper), etc, etc.

So how do you figure is "a bit lower"??

But other than that....

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by shreddog

How do you figure??

According to Rentboard (NW and Calg), all categories are cheaper in Calgary. And then there's food (same or cheaper in Calgary), Gas (much cheaper), insurance (way cheaper), clothes (same), buying a house (much cheaper), no provincal sales tax, monthly transit passes (2/3's cheaper), etc, etc.

So how do you figure is "a bit lower"??

Haven't there are also been some fantastically good deals from Calgary landlords to keep/attract tenants during the downturn?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Yeah, I have to agree. Jobs are shifting outwards from downtown Vancouver as well to office buildings in north Surrey, which isn't that far from New West. There are also a ton of jobs at the towers at Metrotown, BC Hydro is at Edmonds, EA is somewhere in Burnaby, and there'll probably be more decent jobs coming online at Lougheed as that area develops. And hell, there are going to be more office jobs coming into New West as well as the Anvil Centre slowly fills up.

And the whole "commute will only get worse" is kind of malarky as well, as it assumes that TransLink isn't going to do anything to increase service on the Expo line.

EA is between BCIT and Burnaby Hospital.

There's also the medical precinct going in at the south end of Surrey Central by the hospital there too.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Sheba

There's also the medical precinct going in at the south end of Surrey Central by the hospital there too.

Oh right, I forgot about medical too. Royal Columbian is doubling in size, and New West is focussing on that area as a medical precinct as well, so there's a lot of good jobs that aren't in Vancouver.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And yes what has been done to real estate prices is akin to locusts descending on a city. Every affordable house in Vancouver, Richmond and Burnaby has been devoured, you’re in the minority if you disagree. I’m completely fine with wealthy Chinese buyers sneaking their money out of their own country being demonized, zero qualms about it at all.

I think the best way to get constructive dialogue is to not refer to people as 'locusts', but that's just me.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

I think the best way to get constructive dialogue is to not refer to people as 'locusts', but that's just me.

You're right it's strong language, but its for what I, and many others, feel to be the greatest threat facing Vancouver and it's liveability.

Middle class and working Canadians of all backgrounds have been betrayed by all levels of government who allowed foreign wealth to pour in unchecked while in return getting almost nothing. By all means, encourage foreign investment in our companies and our infrastructure. And if a billionaire from China wants to really relocate himself and his family here and build a life and business in Canada, we should welcome that. However we should not be hollowing out our neighbourhoods to provide real estate "safety deposit boxes" for global wealth that continues to reside in other countries.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

When are you leaving whatsnext?

I don't think he is leaving anytime soon. He just went to a fancy restaurant to dine out a couple of nights ago. Seems to be living pretty well here in town. I'm sure many of the "locusts" he refers to also frequent those types of restaurants. Fancy-fancy.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Vin

I don't think he is leaving anytime soon. He just went to a fancy restaurant to dine out a couple of nights ago. Seems to be living pretty well here in town. I'm sure many of the "locusts" he refers to also frequent those types of restaurants. Fancy-fancy.

Oh vin, sometimes you drive me crazy, sometimes you say some profound stuff.

Ideally, we'd do our best to get along and solve our problems with thought, ideally in a large shopping mall with a 100 story tower attached to it...

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Vin

I don't think he is leaving anytime soon. He just went to a fancy restaurant to dine out a couple of nights ago. Seems to be living pretty well here in town. I'm sure many of the "locusts" he refers to also frequent those types of restaurants. Fancy-fancy.

I went to a fancy restaurant? Which one?

[szechuansean]

Originally Posted by whatnext

However we should not be hollowing out our neighbourhoods to provide real estate "safety deposit boxes" for global wealth that continues to reside in other countries.

Good point. Nobody should call you a racist because you're being honest and telling the truth. The left hates that.

[rickvug]

On the "New West is a far flung suburb" comment, see the Metro Vancouver land use map below. Beyond a constrained land base, Metro Vancouver suffers from our Metro Downtown business and cultural hub being in a "far flung" corner of the region. This only exacerbates problems. The sooner that more office jobs can locate in Metrotown, Edmonds, Downtown New Westminster, Lougheed, and Downtown Surrey the better. These are the most central "downtowns" but they are mostly under-built with comparatively few office jobs. Far more people would be within easy 30 minute commuting distance.

[trofirhen]

I live within the city of Paris city limits, in the Northeast quadrant, in a quiet neighbourhood, next to one of the most beautiful parks in the city, in an apartment I can afford, and I'm not rich. Kitty corner from me is a supermarket, and I am friendly with many of the staff members there because I do a lot of my shopping there. One lady, originally from Morocco, a cashier, commutes daily from Massy-Palaiseau, which is slightly southwest of Orly Airport. She takes rapid rail, but it still takes her an hour to get here, and is about a distance of 22 km. She has a 'blue collar job' and has a long (but fortunately, fairly rapid) commute. She does this because she has to, in order to pay the bills. It's too bad she can't live right near where she works, or work right near where she lives, but this is her reality, and I think will be moreso for Vancouverites as time goes by. It's a tough piece of chewing gum, but that's life in a "hot" (economically booming & growing) city.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by szechuansean

Good point. Nobody should call you a racist because you're being honest and telling the truth. The left hates that.

That has nothing to do with "the left." I consider myself "the left" and agree with almost everything whatnext says. It's the "free market" types that want to do nothing and got us into this mess in the first place.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

Are you kidding? a lot of your points about real estate regress to anti-chinese / anti-immigrant demagoguery as the 'remedy' for high vancouver prices.

You seem really unhappy, to the point of dehumanizing large groups of people based on culture and ethnicity. Not addressing inequality and class with regards to the idea of real estate and "home", but looking at culture and ethnicity. It's a free market of ideas here, but I am sorry that you feel that way.
______



Like what?




this thought came from a post about vancouver as a tech hub, that went on to luxury cars, to this.



For those that moved to montreal.

Your post reads in a way that puts ethnicity and culture on the same level.

They are not.

We are all human, regardless of ethnicity, that's beyond any reasonable dispute.

What is not equal is culture.

There are inferior and superior cultures, and they can be measured by a wide degree of metrics depending on what you find favorable. Not all cultures are compatible with each other.

I think its perfectly acceptable for a society to be less or more accepting of cultures that compliment or go against the building blocks of that society.

I think this distinction is very important to make.

Racism is not okay under any circumstance, but racism cannot be conflated with not being accepting of a culture that has unfavorable traits as measured by the receiving society.

[Pinion]

I agree, but it's not even culture, it's 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 multi-millionaires who are gaming the system at the expense of everyone else. Most multi-millionaires are shady 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 no matter where they're from, especially ones that suddenly became multi-millionaires due to skimming it from their third world dictatorship back home.

We're not getting the best people China has to offer by any means, and we should be more picky.

[Vin]

Again lashing out at certain foreigners without first looking in the mirror. If you really want change,

*Make politicians be more picky about who to let into this country.
*Make house sellers not to sell at such a high price but instead lower their sales value for the poor "priced-out" locals.
*Make local developers not to build for those foreigners.
*Boot out rich Americans and others that had also been contributing to the competition and housing price increases here.