Amazon HQ2 thread

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

even against minneapolis? anywhere in canada not named vancouver?

chicago's winter weather is certainly not its strongest selling point, but it's not like it has the absolute worst winter weather on the entire continent or anything silly like that.

Winter storm watch and possible blizzard conditions -- 30-50 mph winds with 3-5" of snow in Minneapolis.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

having lived in chicago my entire life, and the twin cities for several years in college, it's no contest, a minneapolis winter is colder, snowier, and lasts longer in a similar way that a chicago winter is colder, snowier and lasts longer than a st. louis winter.

fair enough...wasnt sure how much of a difference the drier/sunnier aspect overtook the obviously colder aspect...

i have been to minneapolis this time of year, driving from st. louis, and it was like driving between october and december and back.

[Reverberation]

Originally Posted by Mr Roboto

Im really not putting a lot of hope in this one for Chicago. Not like I was for the Olympics in 2016 anyway, which honestly seemed likely at one point.

Based on what I've been reading, and my completely amateur take on it, it looks like Atlanta is a frontrunner, along with Boston and Philly. No offense to Austin or Denver but I cant see those cities supporting such a huge development within their downtown and I dont think they have the infrastructure to handle it. NYC and Wash DC are expensive, potentially prohibitively so, but I wouldnt rule them out. However as the leaders in finance and government respectively I dont know if that would be what Amazon is looking for in a city they want to make a huge impact on. On the other hand it could benefit them if they are looking for less of an impact as well (to avoid the Seattle-effect). Chicago is in there somewhere in the top 6 or 7 but its a long shot. The one major thing Chicago has is the vast amount of open space in the middle of the downtown area that Amazon could utilize - its like a blank slate they could use their creativity on to do something special. Philly is similar in this regard as well, although to a lesser extent.

If Chicago doesnt get it, personally Id like it in Philly as my second choice. Two old big cities that could use a boost IMO.

It would have to be a bigger city. Amazon currently occupies 20% of all Class A office space in Seattle - which is larger than both Denver and Austin. That alone is enough to seriously distort their housing market. DC would be a contender but suffers from the same affordability issues that Seattle and Boston have. My bet is as follows and in no order:

- Atlanta
- Dallas
- Baltimore
- Denver
- Philadelphia (Wild Card)
- Houston (Wild Card)

[woodrow]

Originally Posted by woodrow

My guess for finalists, in no particular order -

1. DC-VA-MD
2. Chicago
3. Dallas
4. Atlanta
5. Detroit (dark horse contender)

All this time and chatter and I pretty much stand by my guesses from my Sept. 7 post. I would include Philly and Boston (?) and keep Detroit as dark horse, though i increasingly doubt that.

Based on the RFP I don't see Amazon going to any metro area with a population less than 4 million, with some significant real estate projects shovel ready, and with good (or decent) transit and very good global connections. COL is important, but that only really hurts Boston and DC in my list.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

fair enough...wasnt sure how much of a difference the drier/sunnier aspect overtook the obviously colder aspect...

it's not drier. minneapolis gets more snow than chicago.

average annual snowfall:

chicago: 36.3"
minneapolis: 54.4"



as for sunshine, it's a wash in nov./dec., but then minneapolis gets sunnier in jan./feb. however, some of that is offset by the fact that you're further north and the days are shorter the further north you go in the depths of winter.

but marginally more sunlight does not make up for temps that are on average 7 - 11 degrees colder in the winter.

[IrishIllini]

Winter in Chicago does not live up to the infamy. It can and does get cold, but people who don't live here act like Chicago is under 2+ ft of snow from November through April. I love it when people from the NE say they could never live in Chicago because of the cold. If you can survive winter in NYC, Boston, or Philly, you can do winter in Chicago.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

it's not drier. minneapolis gets more snow than chicago.

average annual snowfall:

chicago: 36.3"
minneapolis: 54.4"



as for sunshine, it's a wash in nov./dec., but then minneapolis gets sunnier in jan./feb. however, some of that is offset by the fact that you're further north and the days are shorter the further north you go in the depths of winter.

but marginally more sunlight does not make up for temps that are on average 7 - 11 degrees colder in the winter.

minneapolis is plainly drier in winter. ...more of what precip does fall is obviously snowfall in a colder climate.

minneapolis is definitely in a different climate it would appear. i think i underestimate how far minneapolis is from chicago.


wikipedia.com

[Mr Roboto]

Originally Posted by Reverberation

It would have to be a bigger city. Amazon currently occupies 20% of all Class A office space in Seattle - which is larger than both Denver and Austin. That alone is enough to seriously distort their housing market. DC would be a contender but suffers from the same affordability issues that Seattle and Boston have. My bet is as follows and in no order:

- Atlanta
- Dallas
- Baltimore
- Denver
- Philadelphia (Wild Card)
- Houston (Wild Card)

Baltimore is an interesting choice as a contender, I never would have had them on the radar. Proximity to DC works in their favor, and being on the east coast and in a large mega-region, but other than that, as a relatively small city and not to mention one with substantial social issues, it would have certain challenges in maintaining an HQ campus of this size. One things for sure, Amazon would completely transform a city like Baltimore, more so than Seattle.

Personally Im rooting for cities like Baltimore, or even Detroit, but dont consider them as a realistic option.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Winter in Chicago does not live up to the infamy. It can and does get cold, but people who don't live here act like Chicago is under 2+ ft of snow from November through April. I love it when people from the NE say they could never live in Chicago because of the cold. If you can survive winter in NYC, Boston, or Philly, you can do winter in Chicago.

A lot of years NY and Phila. don't receive much snow at all. Phl average is only 15" of snow. It's not the snow that makes winter bad, it's the long cold nights, short days, low sun angle and cloudiness that can persist for days. Some of the most beautiful winter days are the coldest when that front passes and the brilliant sunshine returns.

[mhays]

People might forget that Amazon has only added to an existing tech base in Seattle. Microsoft has always been larger. The effect would be different with only one mega-employer in tech.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Winter in Chicago does not live up to the infamy. It can and does get cold, but people who don't live here act like Chicago is under 2+ ft of snow from November through April. I love it when people from the NE say they could never live in Chicago because of the cold. If you can survive winter in NYC, Boston, or Philly, you can do winter in Chicago.

boston ≠philadelphia in winter.

philadelphia and st. louis have almost identical temperature averages in jan/feb. which is to say feb in chicago is 10 degrees F colder on average, which is an appreciable difference. it's about the same amount of difference between st. louis and atlanta in winter.

it's the difference between slush being on the ground a lot/piled snow to almost never.

[crosbyshow]

Montreal has a shot

4.2 millions people
4 Big University (2 English Mcgill and Concordia and 2 French)
Very low cost Energy
Very low cost living
Public Transports

Facebook, Google etc. have invested in the last months.

Leader in IA

Amazon's 2nd North American headquarters - Greater Montréal has officially submitted its bid

News provided by
Montréal International

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...651876133.html

MONTRÉAL, Oct. 20, 2017 /CNW Telbec/ - Hubert Bolduc, President and CEO of Montréal International, personally delivered Greater Montréal's bid for Amazon's second North American headquarters yesterday in Seattle. Tasked by the Communauté métropolitaine de Montréal (CMM) and supported by the Government of Québec, Montréal International presented a distinct and ambitious proposal to the global e-commerce giant. Amazon could invest over $5 billion in the construction of its new headquarters and hire up to 50,000 new employees.

"The whole team stepped up its efforts in the past few weeks to highlight all the know-how and creativity Greater Montréal has to offer. The city is one of the most tech-forward in the world and that is attractive to Amazon, one of the most innovative companies in the 21st century," said Hubert Bolduc, President and CEO of Montréal International. "It would be a winning alliance perfectly aligned with the city's ambition as it has experienced a phenomenal 23% growth among ICT workers in the past five years."

"Québec's business environment is conducive to thriving innovation in leading-edge industries, such as the digital and AI sectors, making Montréal a prime home base for a player of Amazon's magnitude. Québec is the first Canadian province to soon adopt a digital strategy, and this will push Québec's digital expertise and know-how even further," highlighted Dominique Anglade, Deputy Premier, Minister of Economy, Science and Innovation, and Minister responsible for the Digital Strategy.

"Our city has considerable assets playing in its favour for Amazon to set up its headquarters here. Montréal has created an ecosystem of expertise and innovation, with its pool of creative talent, making it one of the world's most competitive digital hubs. The arrival of this global e-commerce giant will strengthen its position and the whole province of Québec will get to reap the benefits," stated Martin Coiteux, Minister of Municipal Affairs and Land Occupancy, Minister of Public Security, and Minister responsible for the Montréal region.

"Montréal is undeniably one of the world's leading cities and it definitely has what it takes to attract such an investment. We've got urban land with development potential, a pool of skilled talent supported by a vibrant, high-achieving academic community, an innovation district and a thriving ecosystem, cultural and linguistic diversity, great quality of life and a safe environment, not to mention that European feel that no other American city has. That's what we have to offer and you can't find that anywhere else. What's more, Montréal's bid enjoys the support of the business community and all three levels of government, making the city a serious contender in the process," said Montréal Mayor Denis Coderre.

A few highlights in the Montréal bid:

A deep and growing pool of relevant talent fueled by a world-class education system (Montréal accounts for the highest number of students in Canada (320,000), spread within 11 university institutions and more than 60 colleges);
Canada's world class technology hub (Montréal has the highest concentration of tech sector jobs in any Canadian city and reached the international Top 5 of leading cities in video games, visual effects, artificial intelligence and aerospace);
Economic and political stability, including an open and efficient immigration system (As a collaboration between the Government of Quebec and the Government of Canada, the Québec component of Canada's Global Skills Strategy helps innovative companies get workers faster by offering a two-week processing time for work permit);
A 20% to 25% cost advantage compared to similar cities (thanks to affordable wages, attractive corporate effective tax rate, and low, stable energy costs);
A high purchasing power and exceptional quality of life (Montréal offers young professionals housing that costs 25% less than in Toronto and 86% less than in Boston).

About Montréal International (www.montrealinternational.com)
Established in 1996, Montréal International is a non-profit organization funded by the private sector, the governments of Canada and Québec, the Communauté métropolitaine de Montréal and the City of Montréal. Its mission is to attract foreign investment, international organizations and skilled talent to Greater Montréal by providing assistance services tailored to their needs.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

boston ≠philadelphia in winter.

philadelphia and st. louis have almost identical temperature averages in jan/feb. which is to say feb in chicago is 10 degrees F colder on average, which is an appreciable difference. it's about the same amount of difference between st. louis and atlanta in winter.

The difference between Philadelphia and Chicago in January and February is less than ten degrees. Average high for January is 32 (Chi) and 40 (Phil). February is 35 (Chi) and 42 (Phil). These are not major differences, but then again, I've lived in this kind of climate my entire life. The average lows are a different story, but I'm not planning on being outside after 7 or 8 in Philly or Chicago in January/February.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

The difference between Philadelphia and Chicago in January and February is less than ten degrees. Average high for January is 32 (Chi) and 40 (Phil). February is 35 (Chi) and 42 (Phil). These are not major differences, but then again, I've lived in this kind of climate my entire life. The average lows are a different story, but I'm not planning on being outside after 7 or 8 in Philly or Chicago in January/February.

those 7 and 8 degree average differences do indeed matter.

mineapolis is roughly the same amount colder compared to chicago as chicago is to philly, and having lived in both chicago and minneapolis, minneapolis winters are colder, longer, snowier, and just generally more challenging.

now, it's not an earth-shattering difference, we're not talking about comparing a miami winter with a siberian winter, but it is a noticeable difference none-the less. it's colder, and perhaps more importantly, the cold lasts longer.

that said, someone who can survive a chicago winter should be able to handle a minneapolis winter (i did), and likewise someone who can survive a philly winter should be able to handle a chicago winter. none of these cities are places where you expect to be able to go hang out at the beach on a january afternoon.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

those 7 and 8 degree average differences do indeed matter.

mineapolis is roughly the same amount colder compared to chicago as chicago is to philly, and having lived in both chicago and minneapolis, minneapolis winters are colder, longer, snowier, and just generally more challenging.

now, it's not an earth-shattering difference, we're not talking about comparing a miami winter with a siberian winter, but it is a noticeable difference none-the less. it's colder, and perhaps more importantly, the cold lasts longer.

that said, someone who can survive a chicago winter should be able to handle a minneapolis winter (i did), and likewise someone who can survive a philly winter should be able to handle a chicago winter.

This is spot on. I lived in Minneapolis for four years before moving to Denver. I have family in Chicago and grew up in Des Moines (more comparable climate). It's not a huge difference, but just enough that I don't miss Minnesota winters at all. Especially after living through the "polar vortex" winter.

This thread has brought up very interesting discussion points on the strengths/weaknesses of each city. In the end though, we simply don't know what's going through the minds of Amazon's key players in all of this.

I still think cities like Chicago/Philly have the best shot. However, if Amazon values other aspects like outdoor life, quality of life, then a city like Denver may creep up on the list. As I stated before, as a Denver citizen, I would rather not have Amazon come here. We definitely have space to build a campus for them in the city, but the shock to the system in terms of COL would probably elevate Denver quickly to a level comparable to Seattle. Building in a city like Chicago would introduce little or no shock, and would probably benefit the city more. Denver will continue to grow and maintain low unemployment with or without Amazon coming here.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

The difference between Philadelphia and Chicago in January and February is less than ten degrees. Average high for January is 32 (Chi) and 40 (Phil). February is 35 (Chi) and 42 (Phil). These are not major differences, but then again, I've lived in this kind of climate my entire life. The average lows are a different story, but I'm not planning on being outside after 7 or 8 in Philly or Chicago in January/February.

i saw different numbers than that, a little bit wider spread.

fyi, it's totally a crazy hail mary pass, but st. louis included the illinois riverfront in the amazon bid, so illinois actually has two bids now. there's around 800,000 people living on the illinois side of the st. louis metro, that's like what, 2X the size of the next illinois metro area?

(not sure if the state of illinois had their own bid like missouri did, blech)

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by twister244

As I stated before, as a Denver citizen, I would rather not have Amazon come here. We definitely have space to build a campus for them in the city, but the shock to the system in terms of COL would probably elevate Denver quickly to a level comparable to Seattle. Building in a city like Chicago would introduce little or no shock, and would probably benefit the city more. Denver will continue to grow and maintain low unemployment with or without Amazon coming here.

yeah, sort of what i was talking about with austin. and as someone with a lot of friends in denver, essentially none of them want amazon to come...it's the root of what i meant by i don't want to see it go to austin/denver.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by bigstick

Don't "rolleyes" at me you were not clear about your "etc".. It is amazing to me that you guys seem to think Atlanta is not
a huge contender. "ETC", could mean any of the 100's of cities that proposed.. Do any of you realize the corporate power in that city? Not to mention Delta, Home Depot, Coca-Cola. Just in the last few years ATL has attracted Mercedes Benz, Porsche, ETC, (hmm) their ya go, which means many many more corporate's have set up shop in ATL. Not to mention a massive and exploding "tech" presence. Georgia Tech leading the way. Building a massive IT center currently.

http://codatechsquare.com/

Non-union labor building cars is a different consideration from what Amazon probably wants. This isn't to say he might not pick Atlanta, but I suspect much of the South and some other areas may be laboring under a burden of their social policies. Bezos is a liberal's liberal.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by twister244

This is spot on. I lived in Minneapolis for four years before moving to Denver. I have family in Chicago and grew up in Des Moines (more comparable climate). It's not a huge difference, but just enough that I don't miss Minnesota winters at all. Especially after living through the "polar vortex" winter.

This thread has brought up very interesting discussion points on the strengths/weaknesses of each city. In the end though, we simply don't know what's going through the minds of Amazon's key players in all of this.

I still think cities like Chicago/Philly have the best shot. However, if Amazon values other aspects like outdoor life, quality of life, then a city like Denver may creep up on the list. As I stated before, as a Denver citizen, I would rather not have Amazon come here. We definitely have space to build a campus for them in the city, but the shock to the system in terms of COL would probably elevate Denver quickly to a level comparable to Seattle. Building in a city like Chicago would introduce little or no shock, and would probably benefit the city more. Denver will continue to grow and maintain low unemployment with or without Amazon coming here.

You mention outdoor life, I can tell you being in Philly you get 4 seasons. You are also an hour from the ocean and 1.5 hours from the mountains. Beach in the summer, skiing in the winter. As well as a huge amount of theme parks within a 2 hour radius.

Not to mentions you are 1.5 hours from NYC or Baltimore or 2.5 hours to DC.

Every time I think of leaving, I think of these things and its hard finding something that compares to these options.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

those 7 and 8 degree average differences do indeed matter.

mineapolis is roughly the same amount colder compared to chicago as chicago is to philly, and having lived in both chicago and minneapolis, minneapolis winters are colder, longer, snowier, and just generally more challenging.

now, it's not an earth-shattering difference, we're not talking about comparing a miami winter with a siberian winter, but it is a noticeable difference none-the less. it's colder, and perhaps more importantly, the cold lasts longer.

that said, someone who can survive a chicago winter should be able to handle a minneapolis winter (i did), and likewise someone who can survive a philly winter should be able to handle a chicago winter. none of these cities are places where you expect to be able to go hang out at the beach on a january afternoon.

That's kind of my point. I have friends from the NE (Philly, NYC, and Boston) who prior to their first winter, were shaking in their boots. After experiencing it first hand, they've all changed their tune. The one thing I will still hear complaints about is the wind, but they all think Chicago is the Windy City because there's a lot of wind...that's not the origin of the moniker, people!!