Amazon HQ2 thread

[bnk]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

UT, Texas State, Southwestern, St. Edwards, as well as nearby A&M, Baylor, St. Mary's, and UTSA all produce either good or reasonable students in tech who generally stay in or move to Austin. Austin also attracts lots of people from Cali universities, Rice/UH, and the schools in DFW.

That's a small pool of poll vs 125,000 Big Ten [ highly regarded universities thought the Midwest ] that graduate each year and they focus on Chicagoland.


Chicago takes most of these millennials by of course. Amazon will figure that into their calculation. Not only those but University of Chicago, Notre Dame, Northwestern, and many many others ... ectal.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I still think Boston has a much stronger bid than most:

- the largest concentration of STEM and media schools in North America with an annual stream of graduates from around the world
- MIT partnerships including JV incubation labs like the GE ones starting up now (no university in the world is better at monetizing its students' works than MIT)
- the center of nanotech / miniaturization R&D (plus ad-tech) and all Kendall Square has to offer in terms of partner companies and relevant start-ups to buy / poach
- better public transit than any other competing city save Chicago, and a state government with a track record of strong transit expansion support
- Suffolk Downs (a massive, shovel-ready old horse track on top of a Blue Line station which the city will essentially grant for free - people keep saying land is expensive in Boston, but not in this instance)
- the shortest flight times to Europe / Middle East, if as I suspect HQ2 becomes the EMEA-facing side while Seattle stays NA / APAC-focused
- Blue State social laws and norms (i.e. 0.0% chance of bathroom ban gender silliness or whatever else the North Carolina GOPs of the world come up with next)
- a state government lock-step aligned with not just Boston's Amazon bid, but with Boston's best interests in general: no city vs. state / suburbs problems here

There isn't a huge benefit in saving 1 hour flight time to EMEA if there are fewer flights at desirable times, and fewer business class seats available, and of course fewer destinations.

I also think you're overstating the amount of train commuting done in Boston by highly paid white collar professionals. Train frequencies in the late hours are poor, and many people like this live in suburbs with long, hilly walks to the train station, in a region with arguably more unpleasant weather than Chicago (more rainy, wetter snow, more clammy coldness). Barring the youngest tier living in the city, these people will be drivers. Especially considering the weekend lifestyle in the Boston area, where running errands is difficult without a car and there are many amazing things to do a half hour or two hours' drive away, people will want to own a car, so they'll live somewhere they can park it, and will be more inclined to commute with it.

I think the university benefits cited above also are not critical to Amazon; they can hire who they need and relocate them; they are closer to the commercialization side of things than to fundamental research. And even if they determined they needed to be right on top of the universities ... they don't need to situate all of their other 49,900 employees in Boston just to attain that benefit.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by bnk

That's a small pool of poll vs 125,000 Big Ten [ highly regarded universities thought the Midwest ] that graduate each year and they focus on Chicagoland.


Chicago takes most of these millennials by of course. Amazon will figure that into their calculation. Not only those but University of Chicago, Notre Dame, Northwestern, and many many others ... ectal.

Don't get me wrong: I think the prize will go to one of Chicago, Philly, Atlanta, DFW, D.C., or Boston.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by bigstick

Funny how you leave Atlanta out when it is clearly one of the top contenders...SMH..

You must be from Atlanta. There is an "etc" after my list that perhaps you missed.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by denizen467

There isn't a huge benefit in saving 1 hour flight time to EMEA if there are fewer flights at desirable times, and fewer business class seats available, and of course fewer destinations.

I also think you're overstating the amount of train commuting done in Boston by highly paid white collar professionals. Train frequencies in the late hours are poor, and many people like this live in suburbs with long, hilly walks to the train station, in a region with arguably more unpleasant weather than Chicago (more rainy, wetter snow, more clammy coldness). Barring the youngest tier living in the city, these people will be drivers. Especially considering the weekend lifestyle in the Boston area, where running errands is difficult without a car and there are many amazing things to do a half hour or two hours' drive away, people will want to own a car, so they'll live somewhere they can park it, and will be more inclined to commute with it.

I think the university benefits cited above also are not critical to Amazon; they can hire who they need and relocate them; they are closer to the commercialization side of things than to fundamental research. And even if they determined they needed to be right on top of the universities ... they don't need to situate all of their other 49,900 employees in Boston just to attain that benefit.

boston is both sunnier and warmer than chicago in winter...with the big caveat of more big snow events in boston. in general though chicago/great lakes is going to loose the winter weather competition against basically everyone...

[JManc]

You heard it here, it's going to Waco. Bezos likes Dr. Pepper.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by JManc

You heard it here, it's going to Waco. Bezos likes Dr. Pepper.

I heard they've renamed it Dr. Bezos in order to attract Amazon...

[Citylover94]

Originally Posted by denizen467

There isn't a huge benefit in saving 1 hour flight time to EMEA if there are fewer flights at desirable times, and fewer business class seats available, and of course fewer destinations.

I also think you're overstating the amount of train commuting done in Boston by highly paid white collar professionals. Train frequencies in the late hours are poor, and many people like this live in suburbs with long, hilly walks to the train station, in a region with arguably more unpleasant weather than Chicago (more rainy, wetter snow, more clammy coldness). Barring the youngest tier living in the city, these people will be drivers. Especially considering the weekend lifestyle in the Boston area, where running errands is difficult without a car and there are many amazing things to do a half hour or two hours' drive away, people will want to own a car, so they'll live somewhere they can park it, and will be more inclined to commute with it.

I think the university benefits cited above also are not critical to Amazon; they can hire who they need and relocate them; they are closer to the commercialization side of things than to fundamental research. And even if they determined they needed to be right on top of the universities ... they don't need to situate all of their other 49,900 employees in Boston just to attain that benefit.

I don't think they are overstating suburban travel based on two different analysis I have seen the mode share for commuter rail for people heading into the city during rush hour ranges from a low of 40% to a high of 60% depending on the line so I think it is pretty clear based on that that for people living in the suburbs who work in the city the commuter rail is one of the most common ways to get into the city.

[bigstick]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

You must be from Atlanta. There is an "etc" after my list that perhaps you missed.

Don't "rolleyes" at me you were not clear about your "etc".. It is amazing to me that you guys seem to think Atlanta is not
a huge contender. "ETC", could mean any of the 100's of cities that proposed.. Do any of you realize the corporate power in that city? Not to mention Delta, Home Depot, Coca-Cola. Just in the last few years ATL has attracted Mercedes Benz, Porsche, ETC, (hmm) their ya go, which means many many more corporate's have set up shop in ATL. Not to mention a massive and exploding "tech" presence. Georgia Tech leading the way. Building a massive IT center currently.

http://codatechsquare.com/

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

boston is both sunnier and warmer than chicago in winter...with the big caveat of more big snow events in boston. in general though chicago/great lakes is going to loose the winter weather competition against basically everyone...

even against minneapolis? anywhere in canada not named vancouver?

chicago's winter weather is certainly not its strongest selling point, but it's not like it has the absolute worst winter weather on the entire continent or anything silly like that.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by bigstick

Don't "rolleyes" at me you were not clear about your "etc".. It is amazing to me that you guys seem to think Atlanta is not
a huge contender. "ETC", could mean any of the 100's of cities that proposed.. Do any of you realize the corporate power in that city? Not to mention Delta, Home Depot, Coca-Cola. Just in the last few years ATL has attracted Mercedes Benz, Porsche, ETC, (hmm) their ya go, which means many many more corporate's have set up shop in ATL.

It is posts like this which are precisely the type which got this thread closed before. In addition to re-reading the post of mine you're complaining about, I'd recommend you re-read post 499:

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

OK, today is the "due date" for Amazon's RFP so I'm re-opening this thread. Before we proceed, a few reminders:

1. Your city is almost certainly NOT going to get the HQ2 so you are wasting your time trying to defend it.
2. Jeff Bezos is NOT going to read your arguments in favor of your city so you are wasting your time trying to defend it.
3. Since the deadline has now passed, your city has already submitted its proposal, and so your defenses of your city have ZERO chance of making their way into your city's proposal.

Therefore the only sane thing to do at this point is to just chill out and wait for the results, sometime next year.

I'll inaugurate the re-opening of this thread with this:

Bids for Amazon's second headquarters are due Thursday — here are the cities in the running

[Mr Roboto]

Im really not putting a lot of hope in this one for Chicago. Not like I was for the Olympics in 2016 anyway, which honestly seemed likely at one point.

Based on what I've been reading, and my completely amateur take on it, it looks like Atlanta is a frontrunner, along with Boston and Philly. No offense to Austin or Denver but I cant see those cities supporting such a huge development within their downtown and I dont think they have the infrastructure to handle it. NYC and Wash DC are expensive, potentially prohibitively so, but I wouldnt rule them out. However as the leaders in finance and government respectively I dont know if that would be what Amazon is looking for in a city they want to make a huge impact on. On the other hand it could benefit them if they are looking for less of an impact as well (to avoid the Seattle-effect). Chicago is in there somewhere in the top 6 or 7 but its a long shot. The one major thing Chicago has is the vast amount of open space in the middle of the downtown area that Amazon could utilize - its like a blank slate they could use their creativity on to do something special. Philly is similar in this regard as well, although to a lesser extent.

If Chicago doesnt get it, personally Id like it in Philly as my second choice. Two old big cities that could use a boost IMO.

[bigstick]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

It is posts like this which are precisely the type which got this thread closed before. In addition to re-reading the post of mine you're complaining about, I'd recommend you re-read post 499:

I am not complaining about your post(s). You and many others, are just completely delusional about where this might go, so much bias to the NE and Midwest.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

even against minneapolis? anywhere in canada not named vancouver?

chicago's winter weather is certainly not its strongest selling point, but it's not like it has the absolute worst winter weather on the entire continent or anything silly like that.

*in lower 48 of the united states

minneapolis is certainly colder, but also somewhat drier/sunnier.

i don't really think it's a stretch to say that there is a solid case for stating that great lakes cities probably have the worst** winter weather of larger metro areas in the lower 48 united states. i mean it gets noticebly worse just traveling north through illinois past springfield.

**anecodotal...but also weighting low temps, cloudiness, and precip highly

(i also don't believe that it should weigh in any consideration against chicago as the city makes up for that in my opinion)

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by The North One

Provo has a nice mountain backdrop, too bad their lake is disgusting.

Not that Amazon is considering Provo of all places, but Greater Salt Lake City has been attracting tech startups and luring workers for quite some time as an alternative to expensive Bay Area. It's a short flight back to SFO.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by denizen467

I think the university benefits cited above also are not critical to Amazon; they can hire who they need and relocate them; they are closer to the commercialization side of things than to fundamental research. And even if they determined they needed to be right on top of the universities ... they don't need to situate all of their other 49,900 employees in Boston just to attain that benefit.

This.

Can’t emphasize enough how short sighted it is to assume that if you plop down next to “Hah-vad” and MIT that suddenly your entire 50,000 job roster will be full of MIT and “Hah-vad” grads. I mean, that’s insane, and even Amazon knows that. You need to be somewhere that has some top universities, of course, but also a place that churns out high volumes of solid, but not necessarily top of the line, grads.

[Centropolis]

to someone used to hard chicago winters it's not going to be so bad. but i'm somewhat used to coldish weather and hard chicago winters legit ached my once twenty-something bones when i used to spend more time in winter there. i currently have jobsites in illinois all the way from cairo to I-80 and it's...noticeble.

[Centropolis]

like i said, i don't think it should be a negative. i personally think that the summers make up for the winters in the great lakes, because im also familar with the out-great lakes midwest in mid-summer. i just like talking/arguing about weather.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

minneapolis is certainly colder, but also somewhat drier/sunnier.

having lived in chicago my entire life, and the twin cities for several years in college, it's no contest, a minneapolis winter is colder, snowier, and lasts longer in a similar way that a chicago winter is colder, snowier and lasts longer than a st. louis winter.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I find that very hard to believe. California has a bigger population than the entire population of Canada, and it's the preeminent tech hub of the U.S. It does not seem likely that Ontario alone would produce as many STEM degrees as California.

Silicon Valley has long been fueled by immigrants rather than Americans, or Californians specifically. Elon Musk is typical. He's a son of South African and Canadian parents but went to Silicon Valley to launch his companies.

Most Americans know next to nothing about Canada. They assume Canada to be a frozen back water so I'm not surprised that you think it couldn't possibly be true. It never ceases to amaze me how many American tourists visit Toronto, Montreal, etc. for the first time and look in a total state of daze and puzzlement. Big, bustling, and in many respects more cosmopolitan than from where they came. How could this be?

Link: https://venturebeat.com/2013/05/08/how-ontario-plans-to-become-the-worlds-top-technology-hub/

There are plenty of studies that show the exact same thing as the link above. It stands to reason that you'd also doubt the claim that Canada 'invented the basis for machine learning/artificial intelligence'. It's something Alphabet Executive Chairman made a point of mentioning in the Sidewalk Toronto press conference a few days ago. If you want proof it's here in this youtube video:

Skip to 41:12 if you don't want to view the whole thing
• Video Link