Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

Why do we have a picture of an abandoned Stalin era rail project built with forced labour in the far north of Russia? And what relationship does it have with Metro Vancouver?

I'm just seeing how catch-all the "muh permanence" 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 goes.

It also does say something about the state of our infrastructure.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

Why do we have a picture of an abandoned Stalin era rail project built with forced labour in the far north of Russia? And what relationship does it have with Metro Vancouver?

Because someone is doing a poor job of trolling.

[Metro-One]

Yeah, it was an obvious troll attempt.

Ignore it and move on.

Seeing how the new Translink CEO has described the Canada Line as underbuilt and short sighted, and seeing how the Canada Line is still leagues better than what is being proposed in Surrey, hopefully he retains that attitude and builds these projects appropriately.

Start with extending the Expo Line (Skytrain) to Langley and initiating the L-Line as a rapid bus.

Then, in 10 or 15 years or so replace the rapid bus with a superior LRT design that involves at least a few KMs of subway though Surrey's urban core.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yeah, it was an obvious troll attempt.

Ignore it and move on.

Seeing how the new Translink CEO has described the Canada Line as underbuilt and short sighted, and seeing how the Canada Line is still leagues better than what is being proposed in Surrey, hopefully he retains that attitude and builds these projects appropriately.

Start with extending the Expo Line (Skytrain) to Langley and initiating the L-Line as a rapid bus.

Then, in 10 or 15 years or so replace the rapid bus with a superior LRT design that involves at least a few KMs of subway though Surrey's urban core.

and hopefully doesn't have designs like this... because this wont lead to accidents. right? we have good drivers who could handle this. right? because its not like accidents happen on straight flat stretches of roads constantly while also happening at basic, uncomplicated intersections...

Originally Posted by Shift

102 Ave to Surrey Central Station:

]

[Migrant_Coconut]

If that segment was under the street, then hey, no problem! At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Surrey's trying to implement the "cheapest" and "easiest" solution and finding that it's actually getting more expensive and more complicated than if they'd just gone with SkyTrain or even a tunnelled LRT (surfacing at Newton, of course).

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

If that segment was under the street, then hey, no problem! At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Surrey's trying to implement the "cheapest" and "easiest" solution and finding that it's actually getting more expensive and more complicated than if they'd just gone with SkyTrain or even a tunnelled LRT (surfacing at Newton, of course).

I’m sorry but a complicated intersection isn’t gonna be close to the same price as tunneling.

[M00dy]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

I’m sorry but a complicated intersection isn’t gonna be close to the same price as tunneling.

Nope. It'll probably kill more people/mess up traffic a lot more though.

[Metro-One]

Not the point at all.

The cost for this LRT in the current itteration above continues to rise, yet it is one of the most poorly designed stretches of "rapid / mass transit" I have ever seen, much worse than Edmonton's recent expansion. The sheer number of points of conflict with vehicles, pedestrians, and bikes will cause countless delays for all.

Essentially, the cost benefit ratio is terrible.

Yes, tunneling that section would cost more, but the cost benefit ratio would be far superior.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

I’m sorry but a complicated intersection isn’t gonna be close to the same price as tunneling.

And it's not just the intersection. We're talking about ripping up the street and utilities, laying down new (repositioned) utilities, then rebuilding said street with two lanes of median & track... and in the case of 104th, paving a parallel street through several houses, a park and a school playground. That's a whole lot less money saved than you'd think, and a lot more headaches for anyone who isn't Linda Hepner.

[milomilo]

That alignment looks 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 awful, and is more of a streetcar than LRT, to be fair. Is the rest of the line like that?

I'm not the biggest fan of LRT but feel like it is unfairly painted by some here - it can be done well like Calgary's future Green Line phase 1. However, if that image is what Surrey gets, then it should be rightly resisted.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by milomilo

That alignment looks 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 awful, and is more of a streetcar than LRT, to be fair. Is the rest of the line like that?

I'm not the biggest fan of LRT but feel like it is unfairly painted by some here - it can be done well like Calgary's future Green Line phase 1. However, if that image is what Surrey gets, then it should be rightly resisted.

that 1 is the worst, but here are some other photos he posted.

Originally Posted by Shift

Some LRT Track routing from the open house.

Fraser Hwy to King George Station next to the Hub:




100 Ave to 102 Ave:




102 Ave to Surrey Central Station:




96th & King George:

[logicbomb]

LOL at the 1 lane through-lane on KGB @ 96th AVE. You know the right lane will get clogged with vehicles waiting for pedestrians to cross. Those intersections are all choke points in the making.

[milomilo]

The rest isn't so bad at all. If the line tunneled or went over the bit where it swoops through the intersections it would be OK. Still though, you might as well build Skytrain if the populace are already accustomed to elevated rail.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by milomilo

The rest isn't so bad at all. If the line tunneled or went over the bit where it swoops through the intersections it would be OK. Still though, you might as well build Skytrain if the populace are already accustomed to elevated rail.

'But Skytrain divides communities!'

Seriously though, there's a lot of nimby action around pretty much everything built here nowadays.

[flipper316]

http://i.imgur.com/KLOMDQh.jpg?1

Not only are we losing 2 lanes total on KGB north and south they're gonna add another traffic light in that stretch? fml.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by milomilo

That alignment looks 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 awful, and is more of a streetcar than LRT, to be fair. Is the rest of the line like that?

I'm not the biggest fan of LRT but feel like it is unfairly painted by some here - it can be done well like Calgary's future Green Line phase 1. However, if that image is what Surrey gets, then it should be rightly resisted.

AAAAAAHHH

What exactly about that diagram makes it look more like a streetcar than an LRT? In-street LRT (as opposed to off-street LRT) is still LRT.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by flipper316

http://i.imgur.com/KLOMDQh.jpg?1

Not only are we losing 2 lanes total on KGB north and south they're gonna add another traffic light in that stretch? fml.

Hahahahahha. Bet they won't sync them up.

"We will make it hell for people to drive...that will force them onto LRT!"

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

AAAAAAHHH

What exactly about that diagram makes it look more like a streetcar than an LRT? In-street LRT (as opposed to off-street LRT) is still LRT.

LRT is a very broad, generic term. Anything from a tram to skytrain can be considered "LRT". This project is a glorified streetcar advertised as "LRT" to make it sound like it's hip and modern.

[Metro-One]

That thing is going to be so slow through central Surrey.

All those road crossing also greatly limit the frequency of potential trains.

Even if you run a train every 5 minutes that generally equates to a train crossing those intersections every 2.5 minutes.

Just going to be a disaster.

Also, talking about pedestrian connectivity on the Canada Line thread, isn't putting stations in the middle of a road at grade one of the worst things you can do?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

AAAAAAHHH

What exactly about that diagram makes it look more like a streetcar than an LRT? In-street LRT (as opposed to off-street LRT) is still LRT.

Don't get so caught up in semantics, in certain places the naming is interchangeable. That section I mentioned is certainly streetcar like - it interacts with the street heavily.