The future of Ottawa's Transit

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Two digit bus route numbers all go to the Confederation Line, so Route 97 will go to Hurdman.

Didn't know that, thanks. It's not an intuitive rule - would have made more sense to set it up so that all buses starting with a 1 (e.g., 100-199) connect to the Confederation (1) line: the presence of a distinguishing feature (the initial 1) makes it more understandable than the absence of a digit (as compared to 3 digit routes).

Is there a similar rule about bus routes that connect to the Trillium line?

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

My earlier comment about cutting frequency relates specifically to the deletion of Route 53 as a frequent route as you will note when comparing the two maps. Also, note that Fisher Avenue no longer has frequent service as it does today.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I noticed that on the new signs on Holland, they "upgraded" the 86 from Local to Frequent - you can see the sticker with the orange hexagon covering the gray rectangle here. I assume it will be "Frequent" south to Fisher too. Hopefully this means that there are other Frequent routes they have yet to add to the map. (As opposed to calling the 86 "Frequent" until the C-Line opens, and planning to remove the Frequent sticker when it does.)

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Yip. It's an absolute garbage design that needs to be scrapped and replaced by a graphic designer who knows what they are doing.

Hopefully someone with some sense will put something better together and pester OC Transpo to just use it. Similar story in Toronto: some guy started in 2007 prodding the TTC to fix its signs, and finally by 2015 they actually hired him to do it! http://joeclark.org/design/signage/TTC/

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

Hopefully someone with some sense will put something better together and pester OC Transpo to just use it. Similar story in Toronto: some guy started in 2007 prodding the TTC to fix its signs, and finally by 2015 they actually hired him to do it! http://joeclark.org/design/signage/TTC/

I don't hold out much hope. Take, for example, the many generations of OC Transpo in-stop and in-shelter displays which make it difficult to find the four-digit stop number that is the single most useful piece of information they contain, especially in the era of the smartphone.

No one at OC Transpo thinks like a bus user. No one.

[lrt's friend]

Is there a similar rule about bus routes that connect to the Trillium line?

No, at least not until after Phase 2 is completed.

Additional passengers cannot be directed to it, because of frequency, reliability and capacity issues. Also, by 2020, the line will be shut down yet again.

Most passengers adjacent to the Trillium Line are going to be directed to Hurdman Station for the foreseeable future because of this.

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I don't hold out much hope. Take, for example, the many generations of OC Transpo in-stop and in-shelter displays which make it difficult to find the four-digit stop number that is the single most useful piece of information they contain, especially in the era of the smartphone.

No one at OC Transpo thinks like a bus user. No one.

I wish there was a rule that anyone who makes the "big decisions" at OC Transpo had to actually take Transit a couple days a month in different areas of the city, just to see what it is like to ride the system they built.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

I wish there was a rule that anyone who makes the "big decisions" at OC Transpo had to actually take Transit a couple days a month in different areas of the city, just to see what it is like to ride the system they built.

Better than having them "take" Transit, have them "use" Transit (and not just from home to work).

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Better than having them "take" Transit, have them "use" Transit (and not just from home to work).

100% agree, but I was starting small since having them take transit is ambitious enough as is

[hwy418]

I absolutely don't like the fact that a local route number can be a two-digit OR three-digit number.

A local route should be numbered by geographical area in the 100s regardless if it connects to O-Train or Transitway (shouldn't it do that anyway?) 10 possible routes should be enough per area, or use 200s if absolutely needed. I believe all routes in the core should be "frequent" so "local" wouldn't apply there anyway.

Connexion Routes should be numbered below 100 and called "Rapid" regardless if they're peak only (e.g. 30s for Orleans, 60s for Kanata, etc.)

Let's simplify!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Connexion Routes should be numbered below 100 and called "Rapid" regardless if they're peak only (e.g. 30s for Orleans, 60s for Kanata, etc.)

Let's simplify!

That sounds like Canada Post calling all parcels, even those that might take two or three weeks to deliver, "Expedited".

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by hwy418

I absolutely don't like the fact that a local route number can be a two-digit OR three-digit number.

The rationale behind this is that some local buses will be replacing Express/Connexion buses. The number indicates that they are a good way to the LRT (and thus downtown). The local status indicates that they run "all day" and not just in peak periods.

A local route should be numbered by geographical area in the 100s regardless if it connects to O-Train or Transitway (shouldn't it do that anyway?)

You expect all local buses, (including those in Barrhaven, Kanata and Stittsiville) to find their way to an LRT station (which the closest is Tunnies Pasture in the west after Stage 1)?

Edit: I see you also included transitway. That means an extra transfer compared to a bus that goes to an LRT station (after Stage 1, I believe only the Confederation line counts this way).

I believe all routes in the core should be "frequent" so "local" wouldn't apply there anyway.

I disagree. I don't like the name frequent and prefer the name arterial as these buses basically travel reasonably straight along major arteries. Local buses wind their way through neighbourhoods and serve points of interest not on major arteries. Some downtown routes follow one description and others follow the other. The big strange one is current route 1 (and I am sure there are others), which could be classified as "frequent" on the western portion and "local" on the eastern one. It would be difficult to change this as the anti-change activists would jump all over it.

Connexion Routes should be numbered below 100 and called "Rapid" regardless if they're peak only (e.g. 30s for Orleans, 60s for Kanata, etc.)

I think it is good to distinguish between those routes that only run in peak periods and those that run "all day" to help prevent people from waiting for a bus that will never show up. Maybe a another name would be better, but it should be distinct.

[hwy418]

Don't know, seems too complex to me and I live here. Can't wait to see what the new system map looks like later this month...

If you take Orleans as an example:

For Stage 1 revenue service, you might have the 130-135s doing the loop service (i.e. connecting all the communities to either Jeanne D'Arc, Place D'Orleans, Trim or Millenium) all day on the half hour, and the Rapid/Frequent/Arterial/Truck/Whatever 30s service would connect to Blair Station via Place D'Orleans and Jeanne D'Arc Stations all day in both directions, but with increased frequency with during peak periods. IMO, no real need for "rapid", "frequent", and "connexion" routes.

After Stage 2 revenue service, all local service would connect to either Jeanne D'Arc, Orleans Blvd, Place D'Orleans, or Trim. The service frequency would be adjusted accordingly to serve the demand for the time of day. No more Rapid, Frequent, Connexion, etc. You see a 131, get on it and it will take you to the Jeanne D'Arc or Place D'Orleans LRT station to transfer to the O-Train.

[SF Thomas]

From the Metro: The NCC has included a transit link via the PoW Bridge in its 50 year Master Plan.

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

Thought it might be helpful to have the different iterations in one place:

Original:


1st:


2nd:

There's a newer Train, Rapid and Frequent map:



The 8 (Gatineau - Billings Bridge) is now the 10, the 53 (Tunney's Pasture - Carlington) restored, and the 57 (Tunney's Pasture - Baseline) now the 87. The 14 still splits between Parliament and Rideau - are buses actually going to go to both (e.g. eastbound Tunney's Pasture - Rideau - Parliament - St Laurent)?

Also, the Train and Rapid route map has changed -

Original:



Current:



The 57 has been renumbered to 87, and 45 (to CHEO/General), 59 (Lincoln Fields - Bayshore - Bells Corners), 90 (Heron - South Keys looping west of Greenboro) have been removed here, but are still on the Train, Rapid and Frequent map above. On the 75 or the 99 (not sure) Beatrice has been added. On the Trillium line "Confederation Heights" is now "Confederation".

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

There's a newer Train, Rapid and Frequent map:

Thanks for the update.

The 8 (Gatineau - Billings Bridge) is now the 10,

New number, same ugly route. Hopefully they will change it so that the 10 and 85 don't go to Gatineau and create a new route 8 that runs back and forth from Lyon (or better yet Rideau) to Pimisi via Gatineau.

and the 57 (Tunney's Pasture - Baseline) now the 87.

Makes sense, though I think it should change from a "Rapid" route to a "Frequent" route as it will spend half of its time on city streets and after stage 2, it will be 100% on streets.

45 (to CHEO/General), 59 (Lincoln Fields - Bayshore - Bells Corners), 90 (Heron - South Keys looping west of Greenboro) have been removed here, but are still on the Train, Rapid and Frequent map above.

My guess is it is an oversight. Alternatively they are planning to designate them "Frequent" routes as they spend a minority of their trip on the transitway.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

On the Trillium line "Confederation Heights" is now "Confederation".

Back to status quo, in other words. Works better in both languages, too.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Back to status quo, in other words. Works better in both languages, too.

That was a stray quote (now deleted from my post). It was actually from:

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

On the Trillium line "Confederation Heights" is now "Confederation".

[rocketphish]

Advocates want to ensure Ottawa LRT access is affordable
Summit focuses on the development around future stations.

By: Ryan Tumilty, Metro
Published on Sun Sep 24 2017

Making sure that the city’s LRT line will truly serve everyone was a major concern Friday as experts, activists and city staff got together for a summit on equity.

Trevor Haché, vice president of the Healthy Transportation Coalition, who organized the summit at City Hall on Friday, said as the LRT system opens up, the city has to pay attention to the development around the new stations.

He worried about the danger that the new stations will increase property prices and make it hard for people to live close.

“Low-income people are going to have to move further away and new developments are going to be more expensive,” he said.

Haché said that many at the summit shared that concern, and he’s worried that the areas around the stations will swiftly gentrify making it harder for people to live there.

“The concern is that those places aren’t going to be affordable places to live.”

The first stage of the Confederation Line with 13 stations is expected to open next year and some neighbourhoods around those stations have already seen increase in home prices.

Haché said the city has to think about that problem now and look for solutions.

“There is a lot of talk about that and a general feeling that the city needs to do more about that and plan for that reality.”

Those solutions could include more social housing built near the stations or requiring developers to build affordable housing as part of their projects.

Haché said Ottawa hasn’t reached the housing affordability problem that cities like Toronto and Vancouver have, but when a home is out of reach it doesn’t really matter by how much.

“Whether you can’t afford a $400,000 place or a $1 million place, both are totally unattainable.”

He said working on this issue is going to mean residents keep a close eye on council as it approves nearby projects.

“It’s going to be a challenge for the community to get a majority of council onside, so we’re going to have to work hard at doing that.”

http://www.metronews.ca/news/ottawa/2017...ure-ottawa-lrt-access-is-affordable.html

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Back to status quo, in other words. Works better in both languages, too.

Good Day....

until they finally get around to the relocation and rename to 'Heron Station' , the rename which they should do sooner rather than later anyway IMHO. But then......

EnJoy!

[lrt's friend]

I would like to see our first full fledged subway to run under Bank Street and at Billings Bridge branch to the southeast Transitway and replace the planned Baseline BRT with centre running LRT as far as Baseline Station. Also the southeast Transit LRT would be extended to serve both the southern community with a branch to the airport. In other words, there would end up being 3 branches, Riverside South, Airport and Baseline. The Trillium Line would be left as is with the possible exception of adding stations at Walkley and Gladstone. I see this as a tremendous improvement on the current plan, while connecting a vast section of the city directly to downtown. If we want to bring downtown back to life, we need more than one route serving downtown.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I would like to see our first full fledged subway to run under Bank Street and at Billings Bridge branch to the southeast Transitway and replace the planned Baseline BRT with centre running LRT as far as Baseline Station. Also the southeast Transit LRT would be extended to serve both the southern community with a branch to the airport. In other words, there would end up being 3 branches, Riverside South, Airport and Baseline. The Trillium Line would be left as is with the possible exception of adding stations at Walkley and Gladstone. I see this as a tremendous improvement on the current plan, while connecting a vast section of the city directly to downtown. If we want to bring downtown back to life, we need more than route serving downtown.

The Montreal-Rideau corridor is in need of higher-order service before, or at least at the same time as, Bank.

But it's all moot, anyway, without a massive infusion of higher-order-of-government cash, or until Ottawa gets over its inherent cheapness and political control by the suburbs, or likelier, both. There will be no additional mass transit in the core, beyond what's currently being built as part of Phase I and the minor addition (Gladstone) of the Trillium rebuild, this century. Inner city residents and businesses get the joy of subsidizing huge extensions of LRT into distant, low-density, low-diversity suburbs, while suffering some of the worst urban transit performance in the country.

I really don't see any way out of this. Ottawa is a politically-impotent suburb of itself now.