The future of Ottawa's Transit

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

What's stupid about that? Bells Corners hasreally bad transit access since the last redrawing of the map.

Prior to the 97, there was a route 166 that went to Bells Corners.

Never understood cancelling the 166 just to extend the 97.

As it is now, the 97 is more often than not late.

[roger1818]

I don't like the way they are still planning on extending routes 8 (former route 4) and 85 to Hull. Bridges are a major source of delay, so those delays will be passed onto the rest of the route. I would rather see a dedicated route for Hull that runs from Rideau to Pimisi (and back) via Hull. This could be part of the STO/OCT joint venture and have the route alternate between OCT and STO buses (anyone could take either bus).

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

Prior to the 97, there was a route 166 that went to Bells Corners.

Never understood cancelling the 166 just to extend the 97.

As it is now, the 97 is more often than not late.

Yes: there used to be two options, which was especially good for when I had to go to Bells Corners. Made it much easier to get back out!

Now that flexibility is gone.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

There is a new image of the Rapid & Frequent Route network on the OC site:



From the image it looks like:

Current 1 -> 6 (South Keys-Downtown); 10 (Downtown-Rockcliffe)
Current 4 -> 8 (Hurdman-Carleton-Gatineau)
Current 7 -> 7 (Downtown-Carleton-Baseline); 17 (Downtown-St Laurent)
Current 8 -> 44 (Billings-Hurdman)
Current 14-> 14, modified to end at Tunney's in the west end. Carlington section becomes route 53 (Carlington-Tunney's)
Current 16-> 51
Current 87-> 57 (Baseline-Tunney's); 90 (South Keys-Hurdman)
Current 94-> 74 (Riverview-Tunney's); 25 (Blair-Millenium)
Current 95-> 75 (Barrhaven-Tunney's); 39 (Blair-Trim plus extension to Millenium)
Current 97-> 59 (Bells Corners-Tunney's); 97 (Airport-Hurdman)
Current 106->45 (looks like it will be re-routed along hew Hospital Link road and may end at the hospital instead of Elmvale)
Current 111->7
Current 114->40

The map seems to show that the new split routes from the east (10, 17) will end downtown, likely at Bank St. similar to the 19.

Since my original post, the map has been updated a few times. As of now:

-the 10 and 17 have disappeared; so it now seems like the #1 and #7 will NOT be split in two (though the 1 will be re-numbered 6)
-the 111 is now shown on the map so it will likely continue as-is.
-in this new version the route from Carlington-Tunney's has disappeared, but the 14 still shows as ending at Tunney's. Not sure what is going on there.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Since my original post, the map has been updated a few times. As of now:

-the 10 and 17 have disappeared; so it now seems like the #1 and #7 will NOT be split in two (though the 1 will be re-numbered 6)
-the 111 is now shown on the map so it will likely continue as-is.
-in this new version the route from Carlington-Tunney's has disappeared, but the 14 still shows as ending at Tunney's. Not sure what is going on there.

If the trains and the Transitways were removed, are there other routes that should be rapid transit?

[lrt's friend]

Route 59 and 88 both go through Bell's Corners but don't connect on the map.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

There is a new image of the Rapid & Frequent Route network on the OC site:



From the image it looks like:

Current 1 -> 6 (South Keys-Downtown); 10 (Downtown-Rockcliffe)
Current 4 -> 8 (Hurdman-Carleton-Gatineau)
Current 7 -> 7 (Downtown-Carleton-Baseline); 17 (Downtown-St Laurent)
Current 8 -> 44 (Billings-Hurdman)
Current 14-> 14, modified to end at Tunney's in the west end. Carlington section becomes route 53 (Carlington-Tunney's)
Current 16-> 51
Current 87-> 57 (Baseline-Tunney's); 90 (South Keys-Hurdman)
Current 94-> 74 (Riverview-Tunney's); 25 (Blair-Millenium)
Current 95-> 75 (Barrhaven-Tunney's); 39 (Blair-Trim plus extension to Millenium)
Current 97-> 59 (Bells Corners-Tunney's); 97 (Airport-Hurdman)
Current 106->45 (looks like it will be re-routed along hew Hospital Link road and may end at the hospital instead of Elmvale)
Current 111->7
Current 114->40

The map seems to show that the new split routes from the east (10, 17) will end downtown, likely at Bank St. similar to the 19.

Does the 14 go to Rideau, and then turn around and go to Parliament, or is it a different bus going to Rideau?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Does the 14 go to Rideau, and then turn around and go to Parliament, or is it a different bus going to Rideau?

The map is unclear but based on the June draft, the 14 is a continuous route that goes from the east end through to Gladstone. The only difference from today is that it no longer goes to Carlington; instead, once it hits the end of Gladstone, it goes north to Tunney's. The Carlington section is replaced with a new route.

[1overcosc]

They also seem to have ditched earlier ideas at splitting the 1 (to be renumbered 6) and the 7 at Rideau. I'm unsure of whether or not that's a good thing. On the one hand, splitting those routes would have sucked for connectivity, but on the other hand, it would make them significantly more reliable. Especially if the Bank buses ended at Parliament instead of continuing to Rideau.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The map is unclear but based on the June draft, the 14 is a continuous route that goes from the east end through to Gladstone. The only difference from today is that it no longer goes to Carlington; instead, once it hits the end of Gladstone, it goes north to Tunney's. The Carlington section is replaced with a new route.

This is what I'm confused about.

[lrt's friend]

The usefulness of this plan has a major weakness, because they distinguish rapid and frequent routes, but there is no obvious way to know whether a rapid route is also frequent or not. The rapid routes will often be the most frequent routes of all but not necessarily. Some rapid routes will only run every 30 minutes in many hours, and I expect maybe even hourly in certain hours. This map implies that you can rely on these routes, when you may have a very long wait in some cases.

I also note that route splitting is resulting in demoting portions of old routes from frequent service. As I expected, there will be service cuts for many people rather than the ongoing lie that local service would be improved to compensate for the added transfers.

The other concern is that 'frequent' routes may not actually be frequent on the entire length of the routes.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Beedok

This is what I'm confused about.

My guess is it's an error and the 6, 7, 12 and 14 are supposed to go to Rideau (with the first 3 continuing to Parliament).

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

They also seem to have ditched earlier ideas at splitting the 1 (to be renumbered 6) and the 7 at Rideau. I'm unsure of whether or not that's a good thing. On the one hand, splitting those routes would have sucked for connectivity, but on the other hand, it would make them significantly more reliable. Especially if the Bank buses ended at Parliament instead of continuing to Rideau.

Did previous splits actually increase reliability? Just added inconvenience to crosstown trips from what I can tell.

[1overcosc]

I'd have to be a data digger, but it's a known fact that the shorter a route is, the more reliable it is. Less distance to cover = less things that can go wrong during the route. A car accident or traffic snafu in one area will affect every bus that drives through that area.. so shorter routes naturally mean problems don't compound to multiple areas.

One of the biggest problems with the 1 and 7 is the short stretch between Bank & Albert and the Rideau Centre.. because of how inconsistent the traffic lights are and how clogged that area can get, driving through there can take a bus anywhere from 5 minutes to 20 minutes, and this unreliability propagates down the entire length of both routes.

[caveat.doctor]

Thought it might be helpful to have the different iterations in one place:

Original:


1st:


2nd:


I assume that the Rapid routes all start and end at O-Train stations - they don't otherwise continue through a connection with the O-Train, unless the route number is stated twice (e.g. the 6 and 7 have labelled segments north and south of Parliament station).

About the 14: in the original it looked like a continuous route, Tunney's via Gladstone to Parliament via McArthur to St Laurent - I wonder if that's supposed to be the "correct" one.

The schematic still seems to require a bit of pre-existing knowledge to figure out as many segments are missing labels. Would be helpful to label the ends of the lines with the route numbers so it's clear where each starts and finishes. Looking at this as a tourist for example, it's not clear to me:

- If I'm at the Airport, I see I can take a 97, and nothing else. But does that get me just to South Keys? Or beyond?

- To get from Parliament to the Airport, should I take the 1 train to Hurdman and a bus from there, or the 1 train to Bayview, the 2 train to Greenboro, then the bus?

[lrt's friend]

The problem is that there is very limited capability of storing extra buses downtown. So if a route gets off schedule, how does it get corrected? In the past extras could be stored at Hurdman and Lebreton. That won't be possible in the future. And that is considering that in the past almost all routes ran through downtown and did not terminate there.

So splitting is only in theory better.

And further more, there is cost pressures to avoid route overlapping downtown, even though downtown is not a one stop destination. Hopefully, the future will make it even less so.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

Thought it might be helpful to have the different iterations in one place:

Original:


1st:


2nd:


I assume that the Rapid routes all start and end at O-Train stations - they don't otherwise continue through a connection with the O-Train, unless the route number is stated twice (e.g. the 6 and 7 have labelled segments north and south of Parliament station).

About the 14: in the original it looked like a continuous route, Tunney's via Gladstone to Parliament via McArthur to St Laurent - I wonder if that's supposed to be the "correct" one.

The schematic still seems to require a bit of pre-existing knowledge to figure out as many segments are missing labels. Would be helpful to label the ends of the lines with the route numbers so it's clear where each starts and finishes. Looking at this as a tourist for example, it's not clear to me:

- If I'm at the Airport, I see I can take a 97, and nothing else. But does that get me just to South Keys? Or beyond?

- To get from Parliament to the Airport, should I take the 1 train to Hurdman and a bus from there, or the 1 train to Bayview, the 2 train to Greenboro, then the bus?

Two digit bus route numbers all go to the Confederation Line, so Route 97 will go to Hurdman.

My earlier comment about cutting frequency relates specifically to the deletion of Route 53 as a frequent route as you will note when comparing the two maps. Also, note that Fisher Avenue no longer has frequent service as it does today.

I can see at least one other example of spending millions that will result in service cuts on a particular corridor.

We are seeing more and more examples that the transit system is being directed to the Confederation Line and if your trip does not require using the Confederation Line, it will become more difficult in the future. An example is the requirement that if you are going to CHEO or the General Hospital, you will only have one choice, and that is to go to Hurdman even though that is the opposite direction from my actual trip.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

They also seem to have ditched earlier ideas at splitting the 1 (to be renumbered 6) and the 7 at Rideau. I'm unsure of whether or not that's a good thing. On the one hand, splitting those routes would have sucked for connectivity, but on the other hand, it would make them significantly more reliable. Especially if the Bank buses ended at Parliament instead of continuing to Rideau.

Splitting the 2/12 did nothing for reliability.

Splitting the 5/19 did nothing for reliability.

Chopping the former 3 into a shorter 9 did nothing for reliability.

The imagined "reliability" benefits of routumcision in Ottawa have simply not materialized, and that, at the cost of adding transfers, inconvenience, discomfort, and a time-penalty to local trips within the core.

I am pleasantly surprised to see that the transit planners who don't take transit may have finally budged on this.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I'd have to be a data digger, but it's a known fact that the shorter a route is, the more reliable it is.

I.e., the better able it is to keep to a preset schedule.

But that is not the only metric - or even necessary the main one - that matters for local transit on supposedly frequent corridors in the core.

One of the biggest problems with the 1 and 7 is the short stretch between Bank & Albert and the Rideau Centre.. because of how inconsistent the traffic lights are and how clogged that area can get, driving through there can take a bus anywhere from 5 minutes to 20 minutes, and this unreliability propagates down the entire length of both routes.

The absolute worst bottlenecks are from Rideau Street to the cenotaph, and the left-turn trap from Wellington south onto Bank. These are known problems that the city of Ottawa shows absolutely no interest in doing anything about. Car traffic, especially to and from Quebec, takes priority, but by all means keep telling us the soothing lie about how transit is at the top of the motorized portion of the transportation "pyramid".

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The absolute worst bottlenecks are from Rideau Street to the cenotaph, and the left-turn trap from Wellington south onto Bank. These are known problems that the city of Ottawa shows absolutely no interest in doing anything about. Car traffic, especially to and from Quebec, takes priority, but by all means keep telling us the soothing lie about how transit is at the top of the motorized portion of the transportation "pyramid".

If the only concern was fixing it for buses, one option would be to put a south bound contraflow lane for buses on the east edge of the triangle. This would allow buses to quickly jog over to Queen or Albert (or continue south on Elgin). Eastbound isn't so much of a problem, though some light optimization would improve things.

If we wanted to improve traffic flow in general, my thought would be to turn the triangle into a traffic circle. It would slow east bound traffic from Wellington to Rideau, but would improve the flow overall. The only thing is pedestrian access to the War Memorial would need to be rethought.