Rideau Centre Expansion | Completed

[1overcosc]

With Farm Bay, Shoppers, and the LCBO right outside the LRT entrance, it should drive a lot of commuter foot traffic into that part of the mall; the challenge for Cadillac Fairview is nudging those people to venture in further.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

I visit the Westboro Farm Boy probably every second day.... I'm amazed that on the times I'm driving, there is almost always a parking spot available outside (very small lot), yet the store is always very busy. I would say a good percentage of the people are there from their local condo/home on foot. The "food to go" sections are very popular and always hopping busy.

Point being, the Rideau centre location has ALL THOSE CONDOS within steps.... It will be very interesting to see how the LRT/Grocery Store-to-go/Condo combination works.

They might very well pull this off...

I imagine the Rideau Centre Farm Boy will lean heavily toward prepared and ready-to-eat food.

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

These are Plazas/ Strip Malls rather than true Shopping Centres and generally probably have much lower rental rates and certainly lower than Rideau Centre.

Those are enclosed shopping malls, not plazas or strip malls. And of course they're going to have lower rental rates than the Rideau Centre because I strongly suspect it has the highest retail rental rates in the city.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

Carlingwood, Hazeldean, Lincoln Heights, Billings Bridge, and Gloucester Centre.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

These are Plazas/ Strip Malls rather than true Shopping Centres

A strip mall (or shopping plaza) is defined on Wikipedia as "an open-air shopping mall where the stores are arranged in a row, with a sidewalk in front." None of those fit that definition as they all have interior hallways connecting the stores. It is true in most (if not all) of the cases the grocery stores have a private entrance in addition to the entrance into the mall (though often the mall entrance is a bit awkward).

and generally probably have much lower rental rates and certainly lower than Rideau Centre.

True, but that could be said for all suburban retail space as compared to urban retail space. The Rideau Centre is admittedly likely the pinnacle of retail cost in Ottawa, but that wasn't the original statement by Harley613.

[acottawa]

Is Rideau station going to be like Lyon with an escalator for just one direction?

I'm a little surprised St Laurent hasn't made some sort of effort to put errands type stores on the lower level. They have probably the best connection on the LRT line.

[1overcosc]

Rideau station's concourse is a good 15m down from the lower level of the mall. St. Laurent's is right there.

I do worry about escalator situation, mostly because of how bad Ottawans are at escalator etiquette. I get that there's a growing school of thought that suggests the traditional European approach of "stand right, walk left" is unproductive, but in Ottawa, people don't stand on both sides either; they stand in the MIDDLE, and block the entire escalator. OC is going to have to do some sort of signage or advertising campaign to get people to at least stand off to the sides allowing two streams of traffic, if they aren't going to enforce "stand right, walk left."

[MichelKazan]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Rideau station's concourse is a good 15m down from the lower level of the mall. St. Laurent's is right there.

I do worry about escalator situation, mostly because of how bad Ottawans are at escalator etiquette. I get that there's a growing school of thought that suggests the traditional European approach of "stand right, walk left" is unproductive, but in Ottawa, people don't stand on both sides either; they stand in the MIDDLE, and block the entire escalator. OC is going to have to do some sort of signage or advertising campaign to get people to at least stand off to the sides allowing two streams of traffic, if they aren't going to enforce "stand right, walk left."

I hate to tell you this but they will probably do nothing about escalator etiquette. Yes it is bad etiquette and yes, it's worse here than anywhere else. But there seems to be a movement away from Stand Left, Walk Right at the TTC, as illustrated in this Toronto Star article (https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/03...u-to-take-a-stand-on-its-escalators.html) because of the risks of injuries entailed from walking on escalators. So I wonder if OC will even try to encourage that.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by MichelKazan

I hate to tell you this but they will probably do nothing about escalator etiquette. Yes it is bad etiquette and yes, it's worse here than anywhere else. But there seems to be a movement away from Stand Left, Walk Right at the TTC, as illustrated in this Toronto Star article (https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/03...u-to-take-a-stand-on-its-escalators.html) because of the risks of injuries entailed from walking on escalators. So I wonder if OC will even try to encourage that.

Yeah.. such 2017 bullshit logic.. millions of people have to be delayed every day and cost billions in productivity over time because GASP.. one person might get injured every 20 years.

I get that the bubble-wrapped safety-obsessed cult will probably shoot down stand right walk left, but as an alternative, the city should fight like hell to make sure people who stand pick a side and stick to it, allowing 2 people to stand side by side. If there's no push at all, people are going to do the Ottawa thing and stand in the middle with each arm reached out to the railings, hogging the entire width of the escalator. That is even worse than walking being banned because it severely limits the capacity of the escalator. For going down one floor in a mall it's not a big deal but going down the equivalent of 3 stories it is.

Whenever I'm in Ottawa, post LRT opening, I'm going to walk down the escalator every time even if means having to yell 'excuse me' at every person along the way. I encourage everyone else to do the same, then it will be ingrained in people's heads that they have to make way for people faster than them. I've started doing that on sidewalks too.. Ottawa is the only city in the entire world where I've gotten the sidewalk equivalent of road rage.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by MichelKazan

I'm sorry but I'm curious to know which grocery stores have failed in which Ottawa malls in the past 2 decades other than the short-lived Savory's Fine Foods at Bayshore.

Market Fresh doesn't count because the chain as a whole, went under, both mall and non-mall locations alike.

Independent at Bayshore, and I was indeed thinking of Marketfresh and Savory's, I don't see how you can't count them considering their business model was mall locations and they failed.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I'm a little surprised St Laurent hasn't made some sort of effort to put errands type stores on the lower level. They have probably the best connection on the LRT line.

There is still time for that to happen. Regardless, it will be more of an evolution than a revolution as the mall won't want to kick out any of the current tenants (or force them to move). The impetus is more on new tenants wanting that space and being willing to pay a premium for it.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Yeah.. such 2017 bullshit logic.. millions of people have to be delayed every day and cost billions in productivity over time because GASP.. one person might get injured every 20 years.

I get that the bubble-wrapped safety-obsessed cult will probably shoot down stand right walk left, but as an alternative, the city should fight like hell to make sure people who stand pick a side and stick to it, allowing 2 people to stand side by side. If there's no push at all, people are going to do the Ottawa thing and stand in the middle with each arm reached out to the railings, hogging the entire width of the escalator. That is even worse than walking being banned because it severely limits the capacity of the escalator. For going down one floor in a mall it's not a big deal but going down the equivalent of 3 stories it is.

Whenever I'm in Ottawa, post LRT opening, I'm going to walk down the escalator every time even if means having to yell 'excuse me' at every person along the way. I encourage everyone else to do the same, then it will be ingrained in people's heads that they have to make way for people faster than them. I've started doing that on sidewalks too.. Ottawa is the only city in the entire world where I've gotten the sidewalk equivalent of road rage.

It isn't just safety, it is more efficient for people to stand on escalators.

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/03/the-res...o-stand-on-the-escalator-well-sometimes/

[MichelKazan]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Independent at Bayshore

I wouldn't say that failed. It probably closed because
a) It was an aging store that badly needed to be updated in 2000, considering that it opened as a Steinberg's in a then-much smaller Bayshore Mall in 1973.
b) The Mall was undergoing a redevelopment and the spot was being taken over by the now-defunct Les Ailes de la Mode. I don't think that there was another decent space for them to move elsewhere in the mall.

Originally Posted by Harley613

Marketfresh and Savory's, I don't see how you can't count them considering their business model was mall locations and they failed.

Market Fresh had mall locations at Bayshore and St-Laurent but otherwise had many standalone locations including Blue Heron Plaza on Bank Street, Eastview Plaza on Montreal Road, Signature Centre in Kanata as well as 2 or 3 standalone/plaza locations in Gatineau. I hardly call that business model being based on mall locations.

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Independent at Bayshore, and I was indeed thinking of Marketfresh and Savory's, I don't see how you can't count them considering their business model was mall locations and they failed.

MarketFresh's business model wasn't just mall locations. Their locations in Vanier, Kanata and Bank Street weren't in malls. Not sure where they were located on the Quebec side but their Aylmer location that burnt down wasn't in a mall either.

Savory's was just crap. A wannabe Farm Boy without the quality or prices. They wouldn't have survived regardless of where they were located.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Independent at Bayshore,

Although it was there for quite a while, it was in a bad location. To be successful, full fledged modern grocery stores need easy access to a parking lot that is easy to get to as a large percentage of their business will want to use a car to help transport a large load of groceries home. The Independent was at the back of the mall, which was hard to get to and I don't think you could bring the carts into the parking lot, which made things awkward.

Farm Boy won't have as many problems with this, as people tend to not buy as much there as they would in a full grocery store, which makes the groceries easier to carry. LRT is also a bit of a game changer that none of the other Ottawa grocery stores have been able to benefit from. It will be especially popular in inclement weather as those using LRT anyway can grab some dinner supplies without having to step foot outside any more than they already do to get home, even if it is a detour.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

MarketFresh's business model wasn't just mall locations. Their locations in Vanier, Kanata and Bank Street weren't in malls. Not sure where they were located on the Quebec side but their Aylmer location that burnt down wasn't in a mall either.
.

IIRC they were in strip malls on La Gappe and Labrosse, and they had a fairly big location near the food court at Les Galeries de Hull that served as that mall's de facto supermarket.

I believe the chain actually originated in Gatineau and then expanded rapidly to Ottawa.

Looks like it may have gotten too big for its britches too fast.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Although it was there for quite a while, it was in a bad location. To be successful, full fledged modern grocery stores need easy access to a parking lot that is easy to get to as a large percentage of their business will want to use a car to help transport a large load of groceries home. The Independent was at the back of the mall, which was hard to get to and I don't think you could bring the carts into the parking lot, which made things awkward.

Farm Boy won't have as many problems with this, as people tend to not buy as much there as they would in a full grocery store, which makes the groceries easier to carry. LRT is also a bit of a game changer that none of the other Ottawa grocery stores have been able to benefit from. It will be especially popular in inclement weather as those using LRT anyway can grab some dinner supplies without having to step foot outside any more than they already do to get home, even if it is a detour.

Which is exactly my point a few posts above. In the "olden days"... we'd head off to the grocery store and fill the cart, move it all to the car trunk, then again to the deep freeze... and plan for the next shopping adventure in a few weeks.

Being able to run through a store stocked with quality items (both fresh and prepared), add in competitively pricing... then stopping for a few minutes in a grocery store on the way home just might change the way of doing things for many folks.

Given what I've seen from FarmBoy in the past year... I have no doubt they know exactly what they are doing.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Yeah.. such 2017 bullshit logic.. millions of people have to be delayed every day and cost billions in productivity over time because GASP.. one person might get injured every 20 years.

I get that the bubble-wrapped safety-obsessed cult will probably shoot down stand right walk left, but as an alternative, the city should fight like hell to make sure people who stand pick a side and stick to it, allowing 2 people to stand side by side. If there's no push at all, people are going to do the Ottawa thing and stand in the middle with each arm reached out to the railings, hogging the entire width of the escalator. That is even worse than walking being banned because it severely limits the capacity of the escalator. For going down one floor in a mall it's not a big deal but going down the equivalent of 3 stories it is.

Whenever I'm in Ottawa, post LRT opening, I'm going to walk down the escalator every time even if means having to yell 'excuse me' at every person along the way. I encourage everyone else to do the same, then it will be ingrained in people's heads that they have to make way for people faster than them. I've started doing that on sidewalks too.. Ottawa is the only city in the entire world where I've gotten the sidewalk equivalent of road rage.

I'm with you on this one, except if I'm in a hurry, i won't have time to say excuse me & wait for them to move -- I will just go -- under the person's arm, through the small remaining side space, etc. People need to be out of the way if they want to have a break & be slowpokes.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It isn't just safety, it is more efficient for people to stand on escalators.

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/03/the-res...o-stand-on-the-escalator-well-sometimes/

That only works if people stand on both sides, allowing for two streams of traffic on each escalator. In Ottawa, people tend to stand in the middle and take up the entire escalator's width to themselves, meaning only one stream of traffic can flow.

It also is only relevant when capacity is a concern, which will be the case at rush hour, but in the off hours, being blocked by people standing is an annoyance even though capacity is nowhere near being reached.

[mykl]

I think the Rideau Farm Boy is in a fantastic location. It's February. Its dark and cold and you're on your way home from work on the LRT. You don't want to cook, you want to go home and watch Netflix in your pyjamas. So you stop at Rideau, walk directly into the nearby Farm Boy, grab dinner ready to go, maybe stop at the LCBO, get back on the LRT. You stayed inside. It was fast and awesome and warm.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Buggys

I'm with you on this one, except if I'm in a hurry, i won't have time to say excuse me & wait for them to move -- I will just go -- under the person's arm, through the small remaining side space, etc. People need to be out of the way if they want to have a break & be slowpokes.

I swear, the walking culture in Ottawa is getting worse.

Yesterday, on the way to a dental appointment, I had to fight past people who were trying to walk two, and even three abreast, on the sidewalk. ON ELGIN STREET.