Ottawa's bid for Amazon HQ2 - Page 7

OTSkyline · #**121** Posted **Sep 29, 2017, 6:29 PM**

I agree I'm sure the area around Bayview/Lebreton/City Centre would be great for them. It's central in the city, at the cross of two LRT lines and its an area begging to be redevelopped (or plans are already in the works).

I wonder if Melnyk and his group could directly pitch to Amazon (or the City of Ottawa) to include it in their proposal?

Alternatively I would argue that Hurdman (if the soil can be cleaned up) would be a perfect spot for it.

Buggys · #**122** Posted **Sep 29, 2017, 9:49 PM**

What about the Palladium, when the Sens have moved downtown?

1overcosc · #**123** Posted **Sep 29, 2017, 10:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

Eight million square feet is an enormous amount of office space. If Amazon were willing to build highrises it would be three Brookfield places (taking up 15 acres) or a dozen World Exchange plazas, although technology companies have not generally been interested in high rise buildings.

Most of Amazon's presence in Seattle is in high rise buildings.

Harley613 · #**124** Posted **Oct 1, 2017, 2:33 AM**

Hurdman or Tunney's seem like the best spots to me. They are much larger than the available space on Lebreton Flats, and they are not spoken for.

Harley613 · #**125** Posted **Oct 1, 2017, 2:37 AM**

I was just looking at google maps and I honestly feel like Ottawa has a huge advantage over Calgary, Montreal and Toronto simply because we have these large parcels of land that are undeveloped or slated for redevelopment in our central core. Not many cities have that. For once, our ridiculous four-tier government that hampers organic development and density may serve us a favour.

1overcosc · #**126** Posted **Oct 1, 2017, 3:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley613

I was just looking at google maps and I honestly feel like Ottawa has a huge advantage over Calgary, Montreal and Toronto simply because we have these large parcels of land that are undeveloped or slated for redevelopment in our central core. Not many cities have that. For once, our ridiculous four-tier government that hampers organic development and density may serve us a favour.

Toronto has quite a bit of land along the waterfront in the eastern part of its downtown that is up for redevelopment.. this site alone could easily accommodate Amazon: http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/11/...-redevelopment.

passwordisnt123 · #**127** Posted **Oct 1, 2017, 12:58 PM**

I did a little crunching of numbers.

Amazon says it needs enough space for about 40,000 employees. Tunney's pasture currently houses about 10,000 employees on 49 ha (121 acres).

Tunney's Pasture could be used as a site if it was intensified by a factor of 4x from its current state, which seems very do-able to me.

Using that baseline, these two Hurdman sites make up 50.4 ha so that could also serve 40,000 Amazon employees if it had about 4x the density of the current Tunney's Pasture campus.

This parcel of the Experimental farm could conceivably work as well (close to Carling station and proposed future Carling LRT) but would likely be political suicide for the current federal government. It is 48.4 ha so it would also need about 4x the density of the current Tunney's Pasture site.

Lastly, there's this complex chain of sites in west Centretown/Lebreton. This one would have the best rapid transit and be the most central but only makes up about 27.6 ha. It would need about 7x the density of the current Tunney's pasture campus to make 40,000 employees fit. It'd also probably need a Trillium line station on Lemieux island, renovation of the POW bridge and relocating the water treatment plant.

I think any of those options would be very exciting. The Experimental Farm seems to me like the only option that's not even really worth considering. But I see no reason why the other three couldn't be made into a meritorious bid if we cared enough to do so.

Kitchissippi · #**128** Posted **Oct 1, 2017, 1:41 PM**

LOL, relocating the water treatment plant is far more ridiculous than using the Experimental Farm. It can't just go anywhere but the river. Plus if you've ever gone inside for Doors Open the building is a wonderful piece of the city's heritage.

rocketphish · #**129** Posted **Oct 1, 2017, 1:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

I did a little crunching of numbers.

Amazon says it needs enough space for about 40,000 employees.

Realistically though...

1) Tunney's Pasture: It's possible. This is federal land, but they recently showed an openness to turning it over to other uses (Ottawa Hospital).

2) Hurdman: Not going to happen... this is mostly precious NCC land (see p. 17). Good luck with that.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/ncc-ccn/docu...20170422195136

3) Experimental Farm: Not going to happen. This is federal land, and a large portion of what you've mapped out is now committed to the Ottawa Hospital.

4) Centretown/Lebreton sites: Not going to happen. Lemieux Island is a City of Ottawa water filtration plant. It's immovable. And the old Oak Street complex is now owned by Ottawa Community Housing and is currently being planned for redevelopment. Their planning philosphy is a little different to Amazon's ;-)

McC · #**130** Posted **Oct 1, 2017, 2:29 PM**

Why on earth would you exclude the Bayview yards (which are already planned for high density development) in favor of Lemieux Island? The light industrial lands on the west side of the OTrain tracks, with the exception of the old BA Banknote (now Canada Banknote) plant, are also ripe for redevelopment.

Marshsparrow · #**131** Posted **Oct 1, 2017, 6:45 PM**

IMO this speculation is nonsense - US cities, counties and states are piling on the tax exemptions, offerring free land, hydro, water, etc. for many years to lure this 2HQ - Canada cannot even compete on a fraction of a scale coupled with a US president that would go ballistic if Amazon located elsewhere - as great as it would be, don't see it happening

Harley613 · #**132** Posted **Oct 2, 2017, 3:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

IMO this speculation is nonsense - US cities, counties and states are piling on the tax exemptions, offerring free land, hydro, water, etc. for many years to lure this 2HQ - Canada cannot even compete on a fraction of a scale coupled with a US president that would go ballistic if Amazon located elsewhere - as great as it would be, don't see it happening

There is an X factor at play here. I feel like there is a chance Amazon will set up in Canada purely as an FU to the Cheeto-in-Chief. Jeff Bezos is brash and unpredictable. Besides, Canada has advantages that compare to the disadvantages of our tax and utility perks. Our ability to attract foreign talent, for example.

passwordisnt123 · #**133** Posted **Oct 3, 2017, 1:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley613

There is an X factor at play here. I feel like there is a chance Amazon will set up in Canada purely as an FU to the Cheeto-in-Chief. Jeff Bezos is brash and unpredictable. Besides, Canada has advantages that compare to the disadvantages of our tax and utility perks. Our ability to attract foreign talent, for example.

Great point and one that I think is often being overlooked. Bezos hates Trump and Trump hates him. A big part of Trump's whole schtick is talking about all the jobs he's brought to america or outsourcing he's supposedly stopped. Bezos has a personal incentive to screw Trump over by locating HQ2 in Canada. I'm not saying Ottawa is necessarily the first choice. Probably Toronto has the edge in terms of Canadian cities. I'd say it's unlikely Ottawa gets it but it seems also likely that Ottawa has a nonzero probability of success. Even a 95% chance of failure for securing a $5 billion investment is still worth about $250M in probabilistic terms. It's worth putting an effort forward in any case.

harls · #**134** Posted **Oct 3, 2017, 8:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Maybe you should consider sending him to St-Alexandre!

YES!

..have a few thousand to spare?

Vixx · #**135** Posted **Oct 3, 2017, 8:54 PM**

I think Tunney's pasture would be a great spot, I'd love to see that whole area redeveloped. Lebreton, while ideal, is just not realistic right now because of the current negotiations. Melnyk is not going to scrap all his plans to throw a Hail Mary pitch to a tech giant unlikely to come to Canada.

Acajack · #**136** Posted **Oct 3, 2017, 8:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by harls

YES!

..have a few thousand to spare?

It's not that bad. I think you can spread out your payments monthly.

It's around 3000 for the year.

*Peanuts* compared to any private school in Ottawa - but you already knew this...

BlackRedGold · #**137** Posted **Oct 3, 2017, 10:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vixx

I think Tunney's pasture would be a great spot, I'd love to see that whole area redeveloped. Lebreton, while ideal, is just not realistic right now because of the current negotiations. Melnyk is not going to scrap all his plans to throw a Hail Mary pitch to a tech giant unlikely to come to Canada.

Maybe Amazon could buy the Sens from Melnyk.

Buggys · #**138** Posted **Oct 4, 2017, 12:29 AM**

The feds giving a portion of Tunney's to a publically owned hospital is different from giving the whole pasture to a privately owned company. Plus, if Tunney's is given away to Amazon, where would the existing Health Canada & Stats Canada Employees go that's just as convenient to get to public transit & central?

acottawa · #**139** Posted **Oct 4, 2017, 12:46 AM**

Try writing those talking points. "We could have brought 50k jobs to town, but it might have inconvenienced some bureaucrats"

J.OT13 · #**140** Posted **Oct 4, 2017, 12:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buggys

The feds giving a portion of Tunney's to a publically owned hospital is different from giving the whole pasture to a privately owned company. Plus, if Tunney's is given away to Amazon, where would the existing Health Canada & Stats Canada Employees go that's just as convenient to get to public transit & central?

Umm, LeBreton Flats and Bayview?