Ottawa's bid for Amazon HQ2

[YOWflier]

From the files titled "Potentially F***ing Game Changing":

http://obj.ca/article/invest-ottawa-...anadas-capital

Invest Ottawa plans bid to bring massive Amazon corporate office to Canada’s capital

I'm not holding my breath as the competition will be fierce, but it's nice to dream.

[Vixx]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

From the files titled "Potentially F***ing Game Changing":

http://obj.ca/article/invest-ottawa-...anadas-capital



I'm not holding my breath as the competition will be fierce, but it's nice to dream.

I'm not either, but as I said in the Canada wide thread about this, I really think that Ottawa would be a really great choice for them.

One weak point I found in that article was about where they would imagine Amazon operating if they somehow chose Ottawa. Saying "there's room in Kanata, Barrhaven, maybe some old government building someplace, downtown infill" shows that they don't have one specific spot they would want to push. Amazon would want cohesiveness and not have their employees scattered around the city as they have been forced to do in Seattle.

Ottawa has the incentives and quality of life to be a good home for Amazon, but I think if the city is serious in making a respectable pitch, they need to better address where exactly would be a good spot to setup shop and why.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

From the files titled "Potentially F***ing Game Changing":

http://obj.ca/article/invest-ottawa-...anadas-capital



I'm not holding my breath as the competition will be fierce, but it's nice to dream.

This competition for the new Amazon HQ is making me think of the competition to become Canada's capital city. The odds are a lot worse with this competition, but Ottawa beat out bigger cities before. Maybe we can do it again.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Vixx

I'm not either, but as I said in the Canada wide thread about this, I really think that Ottawa would be a really great choice for them.

One weak point I found in that article was about where they would imagine Amazon operating if they somehow chose Ottawa. Saying "there's room in Kanata, Barrhaven, maybe some old government building someplace, downtown infill" shows that they don't have one specific spot they would want to push. Amazon would want cohesiveness and not have their employees scattered around the city as they have been forced to do in Seattle.

Ottawa has the incentives and quality of life to be a good home for Amazon, but I think if the city is serious in making a respectable pitch, they need to better address where exactly would be a good spot to setup shop and why.

My thought is that Ottawa's biggest weaknesses are its airport (lack of direct destinations, particularly on the west coast), its population (50,000 would be a huge chunk of the workforce) and possibly its universities (decent, but definitely not top tier). Strengths are the existing pool of tech talent, cost of living and infrastructure (plus the general Canadian advantages of health care, stability, and a good immigration system).

I agree that the city will need to present a specific location in its bid, but I don't see that as hugely problematic. Assuming that they want a transit-friendly central location, some chunk of Bayview/Lebretton would be an option, as would the old RCMP headquarters/Hurdman area and Confederation Heights/Billings Bridge (with a promise of O-Train improvements).

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Vixx

Ottawa has the incentives and quality of life to be a good home for Amazon, but I think if the city is serious in making a respectable pitch, they need to better address where exactly would be a good spot to setup shop and why.

I think the potential candidate sites get pretty narrow if you want (a) land-gobbling Amazon facilities that are (b) for Amazon's purposes, close to an international airport, and (c) for city-planning purposes, close to current or near-future first-order transit service.

But I can also see (c) being scrapped for political expedience, leaving a sprawling facility somewhere within a couple miles of the airport, but with crap access to transit for employees to use. Kinda like the RCMP fiasco, only private sector.

[YOWflier]

Many parameters including Airport are in my mind a bit of a red herring. Flights/frequencies to anywhere can be started/ increased in an instant.

The one and sometimes only language these companies speak is money. Whatever jurisdiction gives them the most favourable incentive package will get the prize. For this reason alone I don't think they'll come to Canada.

In all my travels to the USA it never ceases to amaze me how even tiny cities have serious corporate presence. Cedar Rapids, Iowa is a good example.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Vixx

I'm not either, but as I said in the Canada wide thread about this, I really think that Ottawa would be a really great choice for them.

One weak point I found in that article was about where they would imagine Amazon operating if they somehow chose Ottawa. Saying "there's room in Kanata, Barrhaven, maybe some old government building someplace, downtown infill" shows that they don't have one specific spot they would want to push. Amazon would want cohesiveness and not have their employees scattered around the city as they have been forced to do in Seattle.

Ottawa has the incentives and quality of life to be a good home for Amazon, but I think if the city is serious in making a respectable pitch, they need to better address where exactly would be a good spot to setup shop and why.

I think Amazon will want an urban campus. I think Bayview/Lebreton would appeal to them the most. They have a new urban campus in Seattle: https://www.amazon.com/p/feature/4kc8ovgnyf996yn

Ottawa has quite a bit of expertise in the e-commerce space. Amazon already works closely with Canada Post as their primary Canadian shipping supplier. Plus Shopify is obviously another big company in this sector.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Many parameters including Airport are in my mind a bit of a red herring. Flights/frequencies to anywhere can be started/ increased in an instant.

The one and sometimes only language these companies speak is money. Whatever jurisdiction gives them the most favourable incentive package will get the prize. For this reason alone I don't think they'll come to Canada.

In all my travels to the USA it never ceases to amaze me how even tiny cities have serious corporate presence. Cedar Rapids, Iowa is a good example.

True, but I'm not sure Ottawa would ever approach the flight options of a city like Toronto or a US hub. Depends on how that is weighted.

You are right on the money part. Hard to see any Canadian city match the types of incentives that US cities will inevitably throw their way.

[Vixx]

Originally Posted by phil235

My thought is that Ottawa's biggest weaknesses are its airport (lack of direct destinations, particularly on the west coast), its population (50,000 would be a huge chunk of the workforce) and possibly its universities (decent, but definitely not top tier). Strengths are the existing pool of tech talent, cost of living and infrastructure (plus the general Canadian advantages of health care, stability, and a good immigration system).

I agree that the city will need to present a specific location in its bid, but I don't see that as hugely problematic. Assuming that they want a transit-friendly central location, some chunk of Bayview/Lebretton would be an option, as would the old RCMP headquarters/Hurdman area and Confederation Heights/Billings Bridge (with a promise of O-Train improvements).

I agree, our flight options are mediocre and we lack top tier universities some other cities have. But considering that everyone has a month to submit a proposal (unless everyone had a heads up well before the public announcement) I still find it difficult to picture one single place that the city could offer Amazon that would be appealing. Lebreton would be great, but unless Melnyk is on board I'm not sure how viable of an idea that would be.

Realistically I still think that Amazon will select an American city, for obvious reasons.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by phil235

True, but I'm not sure Ottawa would ever approach the flight options of a city like Toronto or a US hub. Depends on how that is weighted.

The answer is never, so hopefully it's weighted lightly.

I keep thinking of Cedar Rapids, a city of 125K ("metro" ~225), which hosts the goliath Rockwell Collins (among numerous other big ones). Somehow those companies make due with limited flight options, and our airport is like a super hub compared to theirs.

[acottawa]

Amazon has the same business model as the NFL, the most egregious corporate welfare gets the facility. I would say the early favourites are Austin and Montreal.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

And from the "You should be careful what you complain about" department:

And now he wants the City to take it back, remove the heritage designation and sell the property. Sounds like "You should be careful what you complain about part 2".

[J.OT13]

My biggest fear with the Amazon bid is that the City and Invest Ottawa propose some suburban campus in Kanata/Barrhaven/Orleans. The City is always promoting Kanata North as a high tech hub, always pushing for a big government department ( and now the "opportunity" for a massive private sector hq) to move to Orleans (and now, as Watson would say, it will be served by world class lrt). It's no secret that our politicians have a very suburban-centric mind.

It's always about votes and pleasing ass kissers, not about what's best for Ottawa, current trends or what the customer wants.

If they propose a suburban location, we have 0 chances. If they propose a combination of Lebreton Flats, 900 Albert and/or City Centre, I think we have a good shot.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

My biggest fear with the Amazon bid is that the City and Invest Ottawa propose some suburban campus in Kanata/Barrhaven/Orleans. The City is always promoting Kanata North as a high tech hub, always pushing for a big government department ( and now the "opportunity" for a massive private sector hq) to move to Orleans (and now, as Watson would say, it will be served by world class lrt). It's no secret that our politicians have a very suburban-centric mind.

It's always about votes and pleasing ass kissers, not about what's best for Ottawa, current trends or what the customer wants.

If they propose a suburban location, we have 0 chances. If they propose a combination of Lebreton Flats, 900 Albert and/or City Centre, I think we have a good shot.

Amazon is a large-scale shipper. They warehouse products, ship them in and ship them out. While I like the idea of further developing the sites you mention, none of them have reliable easy access to mass transportation routes - for their products. The best option would be closer to both the 416 and airport - and if a freight rail line is nearby, that would help as well.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

Amazon is a large-scale shipper. They warehouse products, ship them in and ship them out. While I like the idea of further developing the sites you mention, none of them have reliable easy access to mass transportation routes - for their products. The best option would be closer to both the 416 and airport - and if a freight rail line is nearby, that would help as well.

I think HQ2 will have a very different function from fulfillment centres of which there are over a hundred worldwide.

• Video Link

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I think HQ2 will have a very different function from fulfillment centres of which there are over a hundred worldwide.

You are probably correct. It's all a moot point, though.

No Gov't in the western world has been working harder to make the cost of doing business in one jurisdiction far more expensive than any other jurisdiction than this current Ont Gov't.

The only viable Canadian city I could see as a possible contender is Montreal.

[Aylmer]

Or hey, Gatineau is also in Quebec!

[Davis137]

Hamilton is Wooing Amazon too...

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

You are probably correct. It's all a moot point, though.

No Gov't in the western world has been working harder to make the cost of doing business in one jurisdiction far more expensive than any other jurisdiction than this current Ont Gov't.

The only viable Canadian city I could see as a possible contender is Montreal.

Maybe for manufacturing but what makes Ontario higher cost than anywhere else to put a corporate HQ? The key factor is office rental rates, payroll taxes and healthcare costs. These are all very competitive in Ontario and Canada.

Quebec is cheaper but hard place to put a large number of US middle managers because of Law 101.

Given the current political climate I can't see Amazon locating outside the US. They are too politically vulnerable on tax, antitrust and other issues to risk the wrath of Trump.

[Buggys]

Amazon probably wants to be a global power, not US-only. Toronto, Ottawa, or Montreal is still a possibility. Their 1st data centre in Canada was in Montreal. They already have office space for 800 people in Toronto, and our Federal government is storing a lot of data with them.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...an-ontario/amp

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-s-servers/amp