Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction - Page 415

twoNeurons · #**8281** Posted **Sep 11, 2017, 8:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Except that it was just a way for tourists to get around and didn't really connect to anything; see how even Yaletown-Roundhouse would be a five minute walk? Same reason Sydney dismantled their monorail two years ago.

The problem with monorails in general (not just Vancouver) is that they're the same price as other metro rails, but no better. Only one rail is actually worse in some cases:
- Can't travel at street level at all.
- They can't switch tracks, which means no pocket tracks and no branch lines.
- Unlike two-rail tracks, there's no way to evacuate... not without help from the fire department, at least.
- Like with LRT, a new, incompatible rail system means new OMCs + personnel instead of using SkyTrain's... and since it's manually operated, new drivers too. At least LRT is cheaper.

There was a stop right outside of the roundhouse. I still maintain that it would have made a fantastic downtown circulator for the Yaletown/Beaches area. Yaletown is hardly... nowhere... although admittedly, in 1986 there wasn't much there... the community was being planned. It could have been planned around a transportation system.

The SkyTrain has many of those issues as well. In fact... any automated system can't run at ground level without fences. Monorail could run at ground level in a shallow trench... but would require the same fences.

Switches could be built, they're just more complex. They're greatly used in an urban area, where conventional tracks take up a lot of airspace and even more road space.

Evacuation is more challenging, but put a few heads together and a solution could be devised... even if it's the equivalent of an airplane slide.

And it was already built... and designed to be taken apart. They could easily have taken it apart and rebuilt it to fit into the urban context that was being designed in Yaletown.

VancouverOfTheFuture · #**8282** Posted **Sep 11, 2017, 9:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

It could have been planned around a transportation system.

They could easily have taken it apart and rebuilt it to fit into the urban context that was being designed in Yaletown.

there are some rights of way still protected for a monorail in Yaletown. doubt anything would happen, but they were set aside in the planning of Yaletown back in the 90s same as with the rights of way protections for the streetcar in Yaletown; also done in the 90s.

MIPS · #**8283** Posted **Sep 12, 2017, 12:43 AM**

I still think that unless it was planned ahead like the construction of the SkyTrain we would of been walking straight into some sort of problem 20 years later as we saw with the Plaza of Nations.

CanSpice · #**8284** Posted **Sep 12, 2017, 4:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIPS

I still think that unless it was planned ahead like the construction of the SkyTrain we would of been walking straight into some sort of problem 20 years later as we saw with the Plaza of Nations.

Yeah, the monorail was designed and built to be a temporary installation, not something that'd last for more than 20 years.

twoNeurons · #**8285** Posted **Sep 12, 2017, 5:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Yeah, the monorail was designed and built to be a temporary installation, not something that'd last for more than 20 years.

Not sure that's true. It was packed up and shipped to Alton Towers where it still shuttles people around. It was refurbished in 2008:

https://towersstreet.com/theme-park/ride/monorail/

cganuelas1995 · #**8286** Posted **Sep 12, 2017, 6:47 PM**

So, what's the fate of this project under the NDP?

CanSpice · #**8287** Posted **Sep 12, 2017, 7:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Not sure that's true. It was packed up and shipped to Alton Towers where it still shuttles people around. It was refurbished in 2008:

https://towersstreet.com/theme-park/ride/monorail/

Huh. The more you know.

M00dy · #**8288** Posted **Sep 12, 2017, 9:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

So, what's the fate of this project under the NDP?

As far as I can tell they're supportive of it, but funding is still in question.

Last I heard the RFQ won't be until next summer earliest.

cganuelas1995 · #**8289** Posted **Sep 12, 2017, 9:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by M00dy

As far as I can tell they're supportive of it, but funding is still in question.

Last I heard the RFQ won't be until next summer earliest.

Hopefully they don't redirect it to go where there is little to no ridership or to serve political needs.

MIPS · #**8290** Posted **Sep 13, 2017, 2:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Not sure that's true. It was packed up and shipped to Alton Towers where it still shuttles people around. It was refurbished in 2008:

https://towersstreet.com/theme-park/ride/monorail/

You still run into the issue that the monorail ran straight through a route that is currently a bunch of condo towers and buildings, one of which is now partially demolished.
I'm just seeing the idea of reusing the monorail simply because we have a train but at the end of the day the amount of realignments that would of been needed as well as the redundancy in a part of the city already served well by bus and foot access makes it really impractical.

jsbertram · #**8291** Posted **Sep 13, 2017, 3:04 AM**

got stuck on b'wy @ heather today by lanes closed for more soil testing

wonder what they are (not) finding in the soil to do so much testing there?

not the right spot for a station

AMTDGT · #**8292** Posted **Sep 13, 2017, 3:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbertram

got stuck on b'wy @ heather today by lanes closed for more soil testing

wonder what they are (not) finding in the soil to do so much testing there?

not the right spot for a station

There's got to be more old creeks along Broadway other than China Creek and Brewery Creek. I bet they are looking for them and trying to determine if they are an issue for a TBM. I'm in no way an expert but I would think that a large number of still flowing streams may mean Moon Beams's no cut and cover could get over ruled

VancouverOfTheFuture · #**8293** Posted **Sep 13, 2017, 5:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

There's got to be more old creeks along Broadway other than China Creek and Brewery Creek. I bet they are looking for them and trying to determine if they are an issue for a TBM. I'm in no way an expert but I would think that a large number of still flowing streams may mean Moon Beams's no cut and cover could get over ruled

there are many old streams that cross Broadway.
Lost Streams of Vancouver
Maps Reveal Vancouvers Lost Streams

aberdeen5698 · #**8294** Posted **Sep 13, 2017, 6:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

There's got to be more old creeks along Broadway other than China Creek and Brewery Creek. I bet they are looking for them and trying to determine if they are an issue for a TBM.

I'd be pretty surprised if they were looking for creeks. The ones that used to be there would have been culverted off and recorded in the City's engineering archives when the affected areas were filled in or developed over.

It's more likely that they're just trying to get the best possible data on subsurface conditions for the RFP that will eventually be issued. The more data, the less risk the bidders will have to assume and the lower the bids will be. It's just prudent engineering work.

Hooknose · #**8295** Posted **Sep 15, 2017, 7:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

There's got to be more old creeks along Broadway other than China Creek and Brewery Creek. I bet they are looking for them and trying to determine if they are an issue for a TBM. I'm in no way an expert but I would think that a large number of still flowing streams may mean Moon Beams's no cut and cover could get over ruled

Notwithstanding Aberdeen's comment about it being good engineering practice, your comment about Moonbeam and his policies is well taken.

Reality may intrude.

Alex Mackinnon · #**8296** Posted **Sep 15, 2017, 6:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooknose

Notwithstanding Aberdeen's comment about it being good engineering practice, your comment about Moonbeam and his policies is well taken.

Reality may intrude.

I still doubt they'll go cut and cover at any segment if they buy a TBM. You don't just switch back and forth whenever you feel like it. There will likely be some small maintenance pits (safe havens) excavated so that a contractor can do work on the outside of the TBM, but generally switching work methods is inefficient as hell.

I'd bet they're just filling in holes in their geotechnical reports which will be available to the Contractors.

Stations however are likely to be open pits. They could also double as the maintenance safe havens if they're built quick enough.

jollyburger · #**8297** Posted **Sep 29, 2017, 8:23 PM**

A few art galleries might get demolished for the new Broadway extension:

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/...ytrain-extension-may-close-art-galleries

cganuelas1995 · #**8298** Posted **Sep 29, 2017, 8:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

A few art galleries might get demolished for the new Broadway extension:

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/...ytrain-extension-may-close-art-galleries

Damn NIMBYs are getting more powerful.

jollyburger · #**8299** Posted **Sep 29, 2017, 9:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Damn NIMBYs are getting more powerful.

I guess you don't understand what a NINBY is..

Migrant_Coconut · #**8300** Posted **Sep 29, 2017, 10:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I guess you don't understand what a NINBY is..

NINBY... Not In Ned's BackYard?

But seriously, usually it takes an entire community to hold up or reroute a SkyTrain line. Now two art galleries can do the same thing.