Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[elevtechlift]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I'll let the expert handle this one.

I read the article but however, there are some inaccuracies about Monorails. Since Seattle and Sydney Monorail is mostly mentioned, there wasn't anything mentioned in the article on Chongqing Rail Transit Lines 2 and 3 and Daegu Metro Line 3 which are built as part of their metro system. Monorails can go in tunnels like Chongqing Monorail lines. I suggested Monorail as an option for introducing a new SkyTrain system is so the structure is less intrusive yet it still performs similarly to the existing BCRTC and ProTransBC SkyTrain networks. Also, I suggested Monorail for future considerations of building a new rapid transit system over expanding an existing rapid transit system (something like when the Canada Line was selected to be built as a separate system over having it as part of the existing BCRTC network). Monorails are not necessarily meant to replace busses (unless it's a BRT running at or over capacity). One thing for sure that each place has their own unique situation and the right technology is selected on a case-by-case basis.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by elevtechlift

I read the article but however, there are some inaccuracies about Monorails. Since Seattle and Sydney Monorail is mostly mentioned, there wasn't anything mentioned in the article on Chongqing Rail Transit Lines 2 and 3 and Daegu Metro Line 3 which are built as part of their metro system. Monorails can go in tunnels like Chongqing Monorail lines. I suggested Monorail as an option for introducing a new SkyTrain system is so the structure is less intrusive yet it still performs similarly to the existing BCRTC and ProTransBC SkyTrain networks. Also, I suggested Monorail for future considerations of building a new rapid transit system over expanding an existing rapid transit system (something like when the Canada Line was selected to be built as a separate system over having it as part of the existing BCRTC network). Monorails are not necessarily meant to replace busses (unless it's a BRT running at or over capacity). One thing for sure that each place has their own unique situation and the right technology is selected on a case-by-case basis.

I lived in Sao Paulo while the monorail you posted was under construction. It is not that much less intrusive as you require emergency walkways along the sides of the guide-ways. Having said that their monorail is full size unlike our skytrain. Also enjoyed the video with the floods bellow, brings back memories (they always have flooding like this there in their summer as the sewers cant handle the storms that pass through).

Also this all should be in the fantasy thread now that I look at the title...

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

i don't think the Millennium Line will be a monorail people... i think it is going to be a tunnel SkyTrain Line.

[elevtechlift]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i don't think the Millennium Line will be a monorail people... i think it is going to be a tunnel SkyTrain Line.

Of course extending the existing Millennium Line to UBC makes more sense than building a new system like a Monorail to UBC. The Monorail isn't necessarily meant for UBC nor Broadway.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i don't think the Millennium Line will be a monorail people... i think it is going to be a tunnel SkyTrain Line.

Yeah, I think 5 technologies are more than enough technologies for a transit system. Let's not complicate things.

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Yeah, I think 5 technologies are more than enough technologies for a transit system. Let's not complicate things.

but everyone loves a genuine, bona-fide, electrified, six-car monorail! Just ask Brockway, North Haverbrook and Ogdenville!

[twoNeurons]

I miss Vancouver's monorail. It would have been so amazing to have kept the monorail that snaked from Stadium Station to Yaletown roundhouse.

Think of all the interesting condos you would have seen that integrated the monorail's track into their design. For those that are too young to remember... the monorail in Vancouver went along the thick black line below, from Stadium to Yaletown:

[Migrant_Coconut]

Except that it was just a way for tourists to get around and didn't really connect to anything; see how even Yaletown-Roundhouse would be a five minute walk? Same reason Sydney dismantled their monorail two years ago.

The problem with monorails in general (not just Vancouver) is that they're the same price as other metro rails, but no better. Only one rail is actually worse in some cases:
- Can't travel at street level at all.
- They can't switch tracks, which means no pocket tracks and no branch lines.
- Unlike two-rail tracks, there's no way to evacuate... not without help from the fire department, at least.
- Like with LRT, a new, incompatible rail system means new OMCs + personnel instead of using SkyTrain's... and since it's manually operated, new drivers too. At least LRT is cheaper.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

- They can't switch tracks, which means no pocket tracks and no branch lines.

I'm not a fan of monorail but I do have to correct you about switching.

• Video Link

[ilikeredheads]

monorails can switch tracks but the problem is that the switches are more complicated and require a lot more moving parts (meaning more maintenance required and higher chance of failure)

[officedweller]

Off topic....

The Expo Monorail was proposed to be installed in the West End of Vancouver, but the compartmentalized design of the trains was thought to be a safety hazard in the then rough and crime ridden West End (which had a lot of prostitution back then, that's why the street diversions all exist there - to prevent Johns from circling the blocks).

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Off topic....

The Expo Monorail was proposed to be installed in the West End of Vancouver, but the compartmentalized design of the trains was thought to be a safety hazard in the then rough and crime ridden West End (which had a lot of prostitution back then, that's why the street diversions all exist there - to prevent Johns from circling the blocks).

the city still owns some of the right-of-ways that it was meant to go down and they remain that way into the future for "who knows, maybe one day" scenario.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

monorails can switch tracks but the problem is that the switches are more complicated and require a lot more moving parts (meaning more maintenance required and higher chance of failure)

Exactly. Apologies, at the time of posting, "can't switch" seemed less wordy than "so complex and high-maintenance that if you need more than one or two switches, don't bother."

It's why most of the world's monorails are limited to airports and theme parks, and only in a one-way loop - can you imagine the logistical difficulties of building and running, let's say, the YVR/Richmond switch as a monorail line? Crud, the trolley buses and SkyTrain break down enough as it is.

[Feathered Friend]

http://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/development-permit-board.aspx

Note to applicant: Additional utility review and design work is still required to confirm the exact requirements for a third party utility relocation that is ultimately necessary to support the future rapid transit station expansion at Cambie Street and West Broadway. Engineering staff will work expeditiously to reach a conclusion and provide clear direction to the applicant. Furthermore, staff will work closely with the applicant to confirm scheduling and deliverable dates for the utility work to ensure that the construction of this development project is not impeded by any required utility work.

Here's some information from the development boards review of 510 W Broadway, and the need for utility relocation to facilitate the expansion of the station.
Also, per the road closures map, testing has started up along W Broadway again. Various locations along the entire corridor will be tested from September 5th to 29th.

[Hooknose]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

http://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/development-permit-board.aspx



Here's some information from the development boards review of 510 W Broadway, and the need for utility relocation to facilitate the expansion of the station.
Also, per the road closures map, testing has started up along W Broadway again. Various locations along the entire corridor will be tested from September 5th to 29th.

Does anyone have any "inside gossip" on why they drill and test and drill and test and drill?

I have to wonder just how uncertain they are about underground soil conditions.

[M00dy]

Originally Posted by Hooknose

Does anyone have any "inside gossip" on why they drill and test and drill and test and drill?

I have to wonder just how uncertain they are about underground soil conditions.

I haven't heard anything specific but I believe that area has decent soil conditions relative to a lot of metro vancouver.

Could be chasing out contamination?

[Bdawe]

I recall from an old history of the BCER that the original "Fairview Belt Line" through "9th Avenue" involved a great deal of grade modifications, cutting across several drainages that had to be expensively filled.

Could be some unpleasant geology there

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

I recall from an old history of the BCER that the original "Fairview Belt Line" through "9th Avenue" involved a great deal of grade modifications, cutting across several drainages that had to be expensively filled.

I've heard that there was once a trestle a few hundred feet long that carried Broadway across a large ravine that used to roughly parallel Clark Drive to its west. That's all been filled in now, but apparently the now-culverted creek caused some issues that had to be dealt with when the nearby VCC was built.

That section won't be part of the Broadway line, but it's illustrative of how much the "natural" topology of the city has been changed by development.

[officedweller]

That would have been China Creek (I think that's the name of the park, too).

... and that one of the reasons that the Millennium Line if it were built under Broadway (and a VCC-Clark Station under Broadway) would have had to have been built using cut and cover.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

but everyone loves a genuine, bona-fide, electrified, six-car monorail! Just ask Brockway, North Haverbrook and Ogdenville!

Monorail, monorail, MONORAIL!