Amazon HQ2 thread

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

It's so relaxing to live in a city that has no chance, not much reason to care and isn't likely to even try.

Let's pull the shades on this thread before Rahm Emmanuel develops a H bomb under the UC stadium and threatens another city.

[streetscaper]

Not saying it's likely or not likely..... but if Amazon were to come to NYC, I don't see why everyone is bringing up Hudson Yards, the 2nd phase of which is supposed to be primarily residential, and whose office space is already filling up. I think it'd be much more likely that they'd want to start from scratch, so-to-speak.

So why not the Sunnyside Yards?:

Close to transportation with 7 subway lines, close to interstate highways, close to Manhattan, close to international airports. and lots of space to expand. Their initial 500K of office space could be on a shovel-ready site adjacent to the yards as they are being prepped for development.





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And from this below, we can see that Sunnyside Yards has a potential build-out of 30M sqft... so that's way more then the required 8M sqft they want by 2028.

[osmo]

Is Hudson Yards not all leased out on the major tenant front? Why would Brookfield be so stupid to build almost all of that site on Spec. without major tenants already on the books? People think that Amazon can just plop them selves down in the yards when deals have already been signed with the ink already dried.

NYC does not have the space for this campus. There would be no public contest if NYC were going to end up with this thing. People have to expand the mind a bit on this. Nobody has been able to show me a 100-acre site in NYC that would of good space for a campus.

The fact that Toronto does not compute for many lets me think that nobody has even read the RFP or is simply not that familiar with many cities that could take this on. When you read the RFP the list gets quite small to a few major cities (and smaller ones that punch above their weight) that have the best shot:

In no order:

Atlanta
Dallas/Houston
Toronto
Denver
Chicago
Philly

-Smaller Wild Cards-
Detroit
Charlotte
Baltimore

Back to Toronto, it is the only city in the RFP along with Chicago that has every requirement met in full.

[C.]

[streetscaper]

Originally Posted by osmo

Is Hudson Yards not all leased out on the major tenant front? Why would Brookfield be so stupid to build almost all of that site on Spec. without major tenants already on the books? People think that Amazon can just plop them selves down in the yards when deals have already been signed with the ink already dried.

Agreed, don't understand why it's being brought up by others.

NYC does not have the space for this campus. There would be no public contest if NYC were going to end up with this thing. People have to expand the mind a bit on this. Nobody has been able to show me a 100-acre site in NYC that would of good space for a campus.

What's wrong with the 180-acre site of the Sunnyside Yards (6 times the size of Hudson Yards), presented above?

[C.]

Sunnyside Yards doesn't fit the narrative...

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by CIA

I wish NY taxes were as low as Chicago.

[dc_denizen]

wow @ that sunnyside yards vision/proposal.

that would be a game changer for Queens.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by streetscaper

Agreed, don't understand why it's being brought up by others.




What's wrong with the 180-acre site of the Sunnyside Yards (6 times the size of Hudson Yards), presented above?

My apologies, I did not see that until after my post. I would agree that the Sunnyside site is a good option for a site to put forward.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by osmo

Is Hudson Yards not all leased out on the major tenant front? Why would Brookfield be so stupid to build almost all of that site on Spec. without major tenants already on the books? People think that Amazon can just plop them selves down in the yards when deals have already been signed with the ink already dried.

NYC does not have the space for this campus. There would be no public contest if NYC were going to end up with this thing. People have to expand the mind a bit on this. Nobody has been able to show me a 100-acre site in NYC that would of good space for a campus.

The HY is not fully leased and there are many sites that could still accommodate millions of sf.

There's no requirement for a 100 acre campus.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Which is why I think it should be NYC or Chicago or DC or SF( not gonna happen tho)

It should be a higher profile city than Seattle otherwise whats the point?

As nature's calling said, "the point" is probably that Bezos doesn't want to risk having his company die to the next Cascadia Great One at some point in the next decades. It's a real risk when nearly all your eggs are in that basket, and at the size Amazon has now reached it makes sense they don't want to tolerate it anymore.

It's long term planning - this HQ2 is not going to be growing that fast, and HQ1 is going to continue to exist.

It's not about a high profile city at all IMO (and I think that's pretty clear in the RFP that specifies a minimum metro size of 1M).

Originally Posted by nature's calling

Amazon isn't leaving Seattle anytime soon even with increasing costs.

People seem to be glancing over this but I think the biggest factor in Amazon's decision would be the operational risk brought upon by a natural disaster. If "the big one" were to rock Seattle tomorrow, Amazon's supply chain would be in ruin and not only cripple the company, but create a ripple effect and damage the national economy as a result. Creating a second HQ ensures stability, allows Amazon to be operational, and leaves their supply chain mostly intact in the wake of such an event.

Hence this probably favors an inland metro ala Chicago, Atlanta, DC, etc even more because they aren't nearly as prone to natural disaster and thus the operational risk on their ecosystem isn't nearly as great

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Maybe Toronto.

Montreal still suffers from political instability, real or perceived. Risk is too high. Corporatists don't quite gel with secessionists.

That is the corporatist mantra the Toronto business vultures dished out when competing with Montreal for the past forty years. It is a tired tirade that nevertheless proved fruitful for them for a long time.


Montreal has a superlative university presence.
-the 4 major universities are either in or connected to downtown by metro.
-a fifth one: Université de Sherbrooke has a campus on the South Shore with a Metro station.
There are four big international business schools that are part of these colleges.
ESG UQAM student enrolment; 15,000
McGill Desautels Faculty of management; 2300
Université de Montréal HEC; 12,000
Concordia U John Molson School of Business; 9200

The Artificial Intelligence/Deep Learning sector has a high number of PHDs and is one of the major hubs of Computer Science. The engineering faculties of the four universities are also quite impressive.

Mg Gill Engineering; 4500
Polytechnique de Montréal; 6900
Ecole de Technologie Supérieure UQAM; 10,000
Concordia U Faculty of Engineering and Computer Science. 6,000

International connections to South America, Asia, Africa and Europe are plentiful.

A second airport, once the largest in land mass in the world at Mirabel is a cargo airport and comprises a test facility for Bombardier Aircraft and Pratt and Whitney motors built in the Montreal region. Every sector of aerospace design and manufacturing exists from fuselage to finishing, landing gear to satellite assembly, engine construction and overhaul. IATA, and ICAO, the two International agencies regulating commercial Airlines are based in Montreal.

Only problem here is people are stressed out. No time for fun and games.

[Northern Light]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

Only problem here is people are stressed out. No time for fun and games.

Slightly OT, what you said made me think of something I heard..........

It was recently suggested to me that Quebec was about to increase paid vacation to 3 weeks by law, becoming only the 2nd province to do so, after Saskatchewan.

I think that would be awesome, even though I'm in Ontario, as I think Quebec is large enough to spur other provinces on to be more generous.

Any notion of whether you think that may happen?

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by lio45

As nature's calling said, "the point" is probably that Bezos doesn't want to risk having his company die to the next Cascadia Great One at some point in the next decades.

Sorry but I cant take such a suggestion seriously. People on the West Coast just dont think like that.

It's a real risk when nearly all your eggs are in that basket, and at the size Amazon has now reached it makes sense they don't want to tolerate it anymore.

No a more likely scenario is Amazon recognizes it's getting too big for Seattle, today accounting for 20% of the city's downtown office market. But the idea that this is about earthquakes is laughable to me.

It's long term planning - this HQ2 is not going to be growing that fast, and HQ1 is going to continue to exist.

Okay.

It's not about a high profile city at all IMO (and I think that's pretty clear in the RFP that specifies a minimum metro size of 1M).

Yes but they also would like an urban campus similar to Seattle, lots of highly educated people, transit, and lots of daily flights to 4 specific cities, etc.

That narrows things down very quickly no?

Anyhow, I still dont see the point of spending $5 billion on a downgrade city-no offense but I think they should pick a city with the stature of Chicago or DC or NY.

But you are all free to disagree.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Sorry but I cant take such a suggestion seriously. People on the West Coast just dont think like that.


No a more likely scenario is Amazon recognizes it's getting too big for Seattle, today accounting for 20% of the city's downtown office market. But the idea that this is about earthquakes is laughable to me.


Okay.


Yes but they also would like an urban campus similar to Seattle, lots of highly educated people, transit, and lots of daily flights to 4 specific cities, etc.

That narrows things down very quickly no?

Anyhow, I still dont see the point of spending $5 billion on a downgrade city-no offense but I think they should pick a city with the stature of Chicago or DC or NY.

But you are all free to disagree.

It's just funny that you think only Chicago, DC, and NY are "world class" and inferring that they are the only cities with real downtowns.

Let's post some pics from Philly's Schuylkill Yard's development; this is shovel ready with room for them to grow. Last I checked, Amazon completely build part of Seattle's downtown and they have the same opportunity to do that in Philly while also being located in an affordable city, with tons of cultural amenities, one of the most educated student bases in the US, and that's proven it can house large technology companies by having Comcast located in the middle of the city.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by Northern Light

Slightly OT, what you said made me think of something I heard..........

It was recently suggested to me that Quebec was about to increase paid vacation to 3 weeks by law, becoming only the 2nd province to do so, after Saskatchewan.

I think that would be awesome, even though I'm in Ontario, as I think Quebec is large enough to spur other provinces on to be more generous.

Any notion of whether you think that may happen?

I have not heard of this. It's a plausible proposal. When you think of European standards in that department, we still have a ways to go. I think North Americans are held by a leash, we still work to live and that has given us the pedestrian Latte drinkers, we eat and drink on the run. We are conditioned to run in circles, looking for speed in every possible corner of our existence, and yet we are overworked, in spite of all the so-called evidence to the contrary.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

You're missing one of the biggest points though, whatever city gets chosen needs to have two things that Toronto DOESN'T have:

1. Space to build. There's not a contiguous 8 million square feet of space anywhere near the center of downtown. Toronto is fun for Canadians, but if I can live in a nice warm city like Raleigh, Atlanta, Austin, Dallas, god knows I'm not moving to Toronto where I'm gonna freeze my dick off for six months.

Sorry for the tangent.

That's quite alright. Space? East Bayfront and the Portlands. You could fit 10 Amazon HQ's there. Climate? Toronto pretty much has the same weather as NYC and Chicago. Besides, a Toronto HQ wouldn't be dependent on Americans applying for positions. The tech talent pool in southern Ontario is huge and the global talent pool many times larger than that.

Btw, Toronto would be viewed far more favourably by the global talent pool than any of those cities you mentioned. Toronto draws more immigrants each year than those US cities put together.

Originally Posted by cjreisen

Amazon wants a city for a good distribution center, where land transit is easy. And let's be real, Toronto makes land transit to the US about as hard as possible. A trip by truck to NYC is almost twice as long as it should be due to the lake. Similar situation with trying to reach Chicago. Toronto doesn't fill many needs in the long run. But it's a good carrot to dangle. Toronto is seriously the closest possible parallel to seattle in canada, even moreso than vancouver. Not what amazon wants, unless it's looking for a bunch of uber progressive robots wearing glasses, drinking coffee and talking about bernie sanders all day.

This isn't a distribution centre, it's an HQ. Even if it were a distribution centre, southern Ontario is one of the most trade intensive jurisdictions in the world. $1 billion worth of goods cross the Windsor - Detroit border every day, then there's Niagara - Buffalo, and others.

People who are unfamiliar with a place tend to fill in the blanks with what ever thought sounds good to them regardless of how off base it is. You haven't actually been to Toronto, have you?

[Doady]

Toronto is too vanilla and devoid of culture. It's a very boring city. No way Amazon would want to locate there.

[chris]

Raleigh, NC.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Doady

Toronto is too vanilla and devoid of culture. It's a very boring city. No way Amazon would want to locate there.

You forgot to mention that Toronto is too tropical, mountainous, and prone to lava flows from volcanoes.