Winnipeg Construction IX

[pacman]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/tache-promenade-winnipeg-budget-1.4280209

I'm all for beautifying the city and giving locals and visitors nice riverside promenades, but at 5.2 mil it was a really tough sell. Double that to over 10 mil for this little project and that's just ridiculous. Perfect example of low hanging fruit that can be cut and funds better utilized elsewhere. Notice I didn't say lower taxes or decrease spending, just that there's way better bang for the buck on countless opportunities throughout the city. Even if you keep that funding earmarked for river-related infrastructure there's gotta be a better solution.

[esquire]

^ Agreed. $10 million is a crazy amount of money for that. It's a nice little feature, but I'm sure far better bang for the buck can be achieved through other projects.

[optimusREIM]

It seems fishy that high of an amount.

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Agreed. $10 million is a crazy amount of money for that. It's a nice little feature, but I'm sure far better bang for the buck can be achieved through other projects.

$10,000,000 would buy most of the underutilized lands in all of Point Douglas the city may not already own with a waterfront pathway traversing to the Point. That is a legacy and expenditure we all could be proud of and I hope agree upon.

A soft landscape approach to the St Boniface project as opposed to a hard architectural solution is more cost effective and provides a similar experience as one looks out on the river and city... This has become someone's vanity project I'm afraid ...

The funds could also be utilized on the Alexander Docks to create a much needed waterfront access node for The East Exchange and Waterfront North.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by WolselyMan

Sure beats this



https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&...8saATk3v1UW89kqClGQ&ust=1504398959350499

Nooooooope.

I don't know why we let ourselves get caught up in the "ugh, not another soulless glass tower" fad that many self-appointed connoisseurs bitch about, but furthermore, we have next to no glass towers to account for an offending oversupply.

Too much glass is prettier than too much beige, but that's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by trueviking

Glass condo towers aren't allowed anymore in Winnipeg with the new energy code.

To me, the success of this project will be those townhouses. Really like that. Towers are towers. It's very hard to do something special within our economics. I think this is nice.

D Condo will be torn down in 50 years. It is built with balconies that are just extensions of the floor. They used electrical heat trace in the concrete to counteract the thermal bridge but each tenant can turn it off. The walls are something like R7. The solid walls. They are held on with four screws into the concrete.

You can't even do energy modelling around the code for a glass tower?

Originally Posted by pacman

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/tache-promenade-winnipeg-budget-1.4280209

I'm all for beautifying the city and giving locals and visitors nice riverside promenades, but at 5.2 mil it was a really tough sell. Double that to over 10 mil for this little project and that's just ridiculous. Perfect example of low hanging fruit that can be cut and funds better utilized elsewhere. Notice I didn't say lower taxes or decrease spending, just that there's way better bang for the buck on countless opportunities throughout the city. Even if you keep that funding earmarked for river-related infrastructure there's gotta be a better solution.

That's some gross incompetence.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Nooooooope.

I don't know why we let ourselves get caught up in the "ugh, not another soulless glass tower" fad that many self-appointed connoisseurs bitch about, but furthermore, we have next to no glass towers to account for an offending oversupply.

Too much glass is prettier than too much beige, but that's just my opinion.

You can't even do energy modelling around the code for a glass tower?




That's some gross incompetence.

Your opinion is correct though

TV knows better; of course you can still build glass towers that meet the codes. It will add to the cost, but you can do it. 300 Main?

[1ajs]

i would imagin part of the increases is the river bank stablization and potential need to move water waste infrastructure out of the way? and or upgrades that got added to the cost

[drew]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Your opinion is correct though

TV knows better; of course you can still build glass towers that meet the codes. It will add to the cost, but you can do it. 300 Main?

I think what TV is referring to is those glass towers in Vancouver that are all floor to ceiling glass.

That kind of thing would be difficult to pass through the new energy code for MB, and really, it should be. Entire walls of glass (like those in Vancouver) would not be enjoyable in -30C or +30C here in Winnipeg.

Our glass towers would need to include lots of spandrel to cover the insulation a climate like ours needs.

300 Main is not an all glass tower..?

[Urban recluse]

Well, if we are getting that specific...new buildings in Winnipeg do not need to look like bunkers is what I mean. I am perfectly happy with 300 Main and TNS.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Well, if we are getting that specific...new buildings in Winnipeg do not need to look like bunkers is what I mean. I am perfectly happy with 300 Main and TNS.

Well, we kind of need to get that specific. The buildings in Vancouver all "look" that way because the class is continuous and uninterrupted.

I guess it works OK when you have an annual temperature swing of 30 C. Not so much when its closer to 70.

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by pacman

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/tache-promenade-winnipeg-budget-1.4280209

I'm all for beautifying the city and giving locals and visitors nice riverside promenades, but at 5.2 mil it was a really tough sell. Double that to over 10 mil for this little project and that's just ridiculous. Perfect example of low hanging fruit that can be cut and funds better utilized elsewhere. Notice I didn't say lower taxes or decrease spending, just that there's way better bang for the buck on countless opportunities throughout the city. Even if you keep that funding earmarked for river-related infrastructure there's gotta be a better solution.

So is this going to get flooded out every year or is it designed to be higher up?

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by drew

Well, we kind of need to get that specific. The buildings in Vancouver all "look" that way because the class is continuous and uninterrupted.

I guess it works OK when you have an annual temperature swing of 30 C. Not so much when its closer to 70.

Well, in terms of all glass, then I would not expect those to be built in Winnipeg. If possible, great, based on whatever needs to be added to meet code.

[bomberjet]

There's a lot more to the Tache Promende thing than just the one lookout shown in that article. There's other lookouts and structures along the way. It completes the formal 2.5km Forks loop with dedicated pathways. Also believe there's some roadwork in there.

But yes a project doubling in cost like that is a sure kick in the nuts. I'm all for beautification and focusing on the Riverbank. Since there's already a path there for most of the stretch, the $10M for this project could sure go along way for other projects to help fix up existing infrastructure.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

Because the typeface is much thinner, I find the signage a lot less visible now.

Yeah, it also looks weird how the whole thing is left justified and stacked, so it's not even centered on the cylinder. Looks like a mistake.

Originally Posted by pacman

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/tache-promenade-winnipeg-budget-1.4280209

I'm all for beautifying the city and giving locals and visitors nice riverside promenades, but at 5.2 mil it was a really tough sell. Double that to over 10 mil for this little project and that's just ridiculous. Perfect example of low hanging fruit that can be cut and funds better utilized elsewhere. Notice I didn't say lower taxes or decrease spending, just that there's way better bang for the buck on countless opportunities throughout the city. Even if you keep that funding earmarked for river-related infrastructure there's gotta be a better solution.

Yeah.... I'd rather put that money into improving the existing riverwalk, and just expand the sidewalk along Tache to the size of a multi-use path. Let's get one side of the riverwalk done and actually usable for most of the season first.

Originally Posted by 1ajs

i would imagin part of the increases is the river bank stablization and potential need to move water waste infrastructure out of the way? and or upgrades that got added to the cost

It said in the article $1.5m was for stabilization.

[Tacheguy]

This is out my front door so I admit my bias. I do think the project would be money well spent however. I agree with the Winnipeg Foundation folks this is a transformative initiative that will be widely appreciated by the public when completed. Only in Winnipeg with its fucked up riverbanks would this be considered extravegent or a deterrent to other developments in the area.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Well, in terms of all glass, then I would not expect those to be built in Winnipeg. If possible, great, based on whatever needs to be added to meet code.

It'll be interesting to see what the final design for 300 Main is. It's rendered as all glass. Even spandrel has reduced insulation from solid walls. I'm not sure how it would be possible but we will see.

Most residential buildings can't afford an all glass and spandrel facade. It's just the reality. Artis must be working on a very long payback. Until we have rental and condo rates like other cities and more competitive construction costs glass isn't realistic in Winnipeg. Design of a typical residential project usually includes a hot debate over the upcharge of stucco to hardie board. Every inch of glass is precious.

TNS got in under the old code I believe.

[trueviking]

Ive literally begged clients to use regular stucco over EIFS...or thought 12" metal panel was a triumph. Didn't think i'd be doing that when I was in architecture school.

[BubberMiley]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

There's a lot more to the Tache Promende thing than just the one lookout shown in that article. There's other lookouts and structures along the way. It completes the formal 2.5km Forks loop with dedicated pathways. Also believe there's some roadwork in there.

But yes a project doubling in cost like that is a sure kick in the nuts. I'm all for beautification and focusing on the Riverbank. Since there's already a path there for most of the stretch, the $10M for this project could sure go along way for other projects to help fix up existing infrastructure.

As I understand, they combined two projects and that is what doubled the price.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by trueviking

It'll be interesting to see what the final design for 300 Main is. It's rendered as all glass. Even spandrel has reduced insulation from solid walls. I'm not sure how it would be possible but we will see.

Most residential buildings can't afford an all glass and spandrel facade. It's just the reality. Artis must be working on a very long payback. Until we have rental and condo rates like other cities and more competitive construction costs glass isn't realistic in Winnipeg. Design of a typical residential project usually includes a hot debate over the upcharge of stucco to hardie board. Every inch of glass is precious.

TNS got in under the old code I believe.

Yeah, use of color and a mixture of glass and stone do go a long way.

[trueviking]

Colour is for crayons.