O-Train Line 1/3 [Stage 2 | West Extension | Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Predominantly 60+ year old 2-person household NIMBYs
Apparently that's who we are building the LRT for.

You mean bored retirees that have lots of time to whine at public consultations.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

Who?? Who are these people?? Do people not understand the benefits of having a rapid transit station closer to their homes?? I know that people on this forum tend to be more open to transit ideals, but I can't see how any reasonable person would want this FURTHER away from them.

My only thought is they are afraid of the noise. The thing is the station will be so close to the Queensway that any noise generated by the LRT will be drowned out by highway noise. I suspect none have ever seen an LRT train and their only point of reference is intercity trains with loud diesel-electric engines and horns blairing at crossings, neither of which apply. The buses at the station will be louder than the train. Then again, this is the same community that insisted on a noise barrier being built to protect the forest from the noise of the transitway extension being built beside the Queensway.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by roger1818

My only thought is they are afraid of the noise. The thing is the station will be so close to the Queensway that any noise generated by the LRT will be drowned out by highway noise. I suspect none have ever seen an LRT train and their only point of reference is intercity trains with loud diesel-electric engines and horns blairing at crossings, neither of which apply. The buses at the station will be louder than the train. Then again, this is the same community that insisted on a noise barrier being built to protect the forest from the noise of the transitway extension being built beside the Queensway.

Exactly! These are the same people who bought Barry Hobin designed $500K homes on Brookbend Cr. and Creekwood Cr. in the early 2000s with triple-pane windows because they knew it was slightly noisy because of their proximity to Highway 417. Want quiet - move to Perth. No sympathy.

[unfinite]

Originally Posted by roger1818

My only thought is they are afraid of the noise. The thing is the station will be so close to the Queensway that any noise generated by the LRT will be drowned out by highway noise. I suspect none have ever seen an LRT train and their only point of reference is intercity trains with loud diesel-electric engines and horns blairing at crossings, neither of which apply. The buses at the station will be louder than the train. Then again, this is the same community that insisted on a noise barrier being built to protect the forest from the noise of the transitway extension being built beside the Queensway.

Meanwhile, it's been nearly 40 years in the works to get a noise barrier up on the north side of the Queensway between Bronson and Lyon. Just a few more studies and a few more years... Maybe. Someday.

[waterloowarrior]

Staff report update on Stage 2 implementation incl Moodie
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=364105

[zzptichka]

So Crystal Beach NIMBYs pushed LMSF to another location along 417 (that scored fewer points in the study). And thank y'all for $15M extra $$ it will cost to build it.

Now these morons will be fighting AGAINST LRT station in the neighborhood to move it 1km West. Amazing.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by unfinite

Meanwhile, it's been nearly 40 years in the works to get a noise barrier up on the north side of the Queensway between Bronson and Lyon. Just a few more studies and a few more years... Maybe. Someday.

Meanwhiler, I can't get the police or by-law to do anything about noise and disturbances from the crap tenants that moved in across the street over the summer.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Now these morons will be fighting AGAINST LRT station in the neighborhood to move it 1km West. Amazing.

If they are going to move it 1km west, they might as well move it 4km west instead and call it Eagleson/March/Teron. Alternately, follow the old CPR ROW and have the station in Bells Corners (Moodie at Timm). Or with the extra costs, just abandon the Moodie extension and have it end at Bayshore again.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

If they are going to move it 1km west, they might as well move it 4km west instead and call it Eagleson/March/Teron. Alternately, follow the old CPR ROW and have the station in Bells Corners (Moodie at Timm). Or with the extra costs, just abandon the Moodie extension and have it end at Bayshore again.

The terminus has nothing to do with customer service. It has everything to do with finding a place to store trains when out of service. Who cares about riders having to transfer in the middle of nowhere? This has been the plan for the Trillium Line. Who cares if you have to wait 30 minutes for your bus and nowhere to run a few errands while you wait. Just stand there and a stew about the long wait, and think about buying a car as soon as you can afford it.

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The terminus has nothing to do with customer service. It has everything to do with finding a place to store trains when out of service. Who cares about riders having to transfer in the middle of nowhere? This has been the plan for the Trillium Line. Who cares if you have to wait 30 minutes for your bus and nowhere to run a few errands while you wait. Just stand there and a stew about the long wait, and think about buying a car as soon as you can afford it.

Oh so true.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The terminus has nothing to do with customer service. It has everything to do with finding a place to store trains when out of service. Who cares about riders having to transfer in the middle of nowhere? This has been the plan for the Trillium Line. Who cares if you have to wait 30 minutes for your bus and nowhere to run a few errands while you wait. Just stand there and a stew about the long wait, and think about buying a car as soon as you can afford it.

No. That's what the maintenance and storage facility is for. While there are some advantages to having it close to the terminus, it isn't crucial. Belfast isn't adjacent to Blair and it certainly isn't close to Trim and the original location of the western facility was quite south of Baseline yet there was no talk of extending the line there. Why? Because Baseline is a large station and Has lots of room for bus bays. OTOH, Bayshore station is small and land for extra bus bays is expensive so adding a station at Moodie was going to be cheaper and will save money on the Kanata extension.

My point was if they have to cross Moodie anyway, might as well extend it to just shy of Eagleson for not much more and save all those busses from having to run those extra 4km each way. If costs get to high, they may have to revert to a Bayshore terminus, despite the extra land cost. I gather with an expanded Belfast facility, a western one is more of a nice to have than a necessity for now.

My idea of a Bells Corners station was more of a pipe dream admittedly.

Regardless of where the terminus is located, it will be temporary, as the plan is to extend it to Kanata. Once that happens, the number of busses going to the station with be greatly reduced and the land for extra bus bays can be repurposed.

[Buggys]

Why did they suddenly change from having the Western maintenance & storage facility just South of Baseline to Westboro Bayshore?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Why did they suddenly change from having the Western maintenance & storage facility just South of Baseline to Westboro Bayshore?

From what I gather it was because the residents near the location originally proposed complained.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by roger1818

From what I gather it was because the residents near the location originally proposed complained.

Good Day...

yep...that was the main driving force - behind the scenes.
Up front, the stated objections are too much non-revenue track (1.2 km) from Baseline/Algonquin to the site (nevermind the future revenue service to Barrhaven (too far in the future?) - the now productive statement for the Moodie station and the LMSF at Moodie west), and the expenses of the maintenance on that rail and the necessary bridges/trenches (Baseline / Algonquin (trench) to Woodroffe / CN (underpass - for the future soutward rail) with Woodroffe overpass beside CN rail to access the LMSF) (which they could not make up their minds on for Tallwood - variously either an elevated station or trenched station) and the high water table in the area of the line from Baseline / Algonquin to the CN / Woodroffe underpass depression leading to higher construction and maintenance costs in the trenched sections.
<snort> IE - massive spin control to back out of what seemed a reasonable site candidate.

On the latest release - only just working my way through it - but I am still massively bothered by the detail of 90 meter platforms (ok), with protection for 100. !! only 100 !! where did protection for 120 vanish to ? The current 90 leaves the 2 train consists (96 meters) hanging their noses out 3 meters either end. OK, we can deal with that - the doors are in from the noses. BUT - add in the 11 meter expansion unit in each train for planned future capacity, and you get 118 meter consists. 100 is TOO SHORT ! WTF ?!
This is WORRYING me. They keep repeating it, now in three iterations of the stage 2 expansion plans.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day...

yep...that was the main driving force - behind the scenes.
Up front, the stated objections are too much non-revenue track (1.2 km) from Baseline/Algonquin to the site (nevermind the future revenue service to Barrhaven (too far in the future?) - the now productive statement for the Moodie station and the LMSF at Moodie west), and the expenses of the maintenance on that rail and the necessary bridges/trenches (Baseline / Algonquin (trench) to Woodroffe / CN (underpass - for the future soutward rail) with Woodroffe overpass beside CN rail to access the LMSF) (which they could not make up their minds on for Tallwood - variously either an elevated station or trenched station) and the high water table in the area of the line from Baseline / Algonquin to the CN / Woodroffe underpass depression leading to higher construction and maintenance costs in the trenched sections.
<snort> IE - massive spin control to back out of what seemed a reasonable site candidate.

On the latest release - only just working my way through it - but I am still massively bothered by the detail of 90 meter platforms (ok), with protection for 100. !! only 100 !! where did protection for 120 vanish to ? The current 90 leaves the 2 train consists (96 meters) hanging their noses out 3 meters either end. OK, we can deal with that - the doors are in from the noses. BUT - add in the 11 meter expansion unit in each train for planned future capacity, and you get 118 meter consists. 100 is TOO SHORT ! WTF ?!
This is WORRYING me. They keep repeating it, now in three iterations of the stage 2 expansion plans.

We will need massive and costly station renovations in the future and likely station closures, but that is the future. Why worry about it? We are saving a few bucks now.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We will need massive and costly station renovations in the future and likely station closures, but that is the future. Why worry about it? We are saving a few bucks now.

I can't remember what city I was in (might have been Delhi) but the train would ding and remind everyone who was exiting at the next station that the end doors would not be in service. So people stood up and moved towards the centre of the train (mostly me, because everyone else knew to get on and sit near the centre so they could get off). At the station, the end doors hung into the tunnel and didn't open.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We will need massive and costly station renovations in the future and likely station closures, but that is the future. Why worry about it? We are saving a few bucks now.

There are two branches in Stage 2, maybe they don't think the Kanata branch would ever need 120m platforms, and only the baseline branch will get them (I'm pretty sure it had 120m in the plans in the EA)

[kevinbottawa]

Moodie LRT station won't have park and ride because there's no room

JON WILLING

FIRST POSTED: FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 01, 2017 05:14 PM EDT | UPDATED: FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 01, 2017 05:27 PM EDT

West-end commuters won’t be able to ditch their cars at the future Moodie LRT station and ride the rails to downtown Ottawa.

There simply isn’t enough room near the station to build a park-and-ride facility, according to a report on the Stage 2 transit expansion.

Council had asked staff to see if a park and ride could be built at Moodie station, which will become one of the western terminuses of the Confederation Line LRT in 2023.

The Moodie LRT extension is being added to the $3-billion Stage 2 blueprint. The city expects it will help employees with the Department of National Defence get to work when their offices are relocated to the old Nortel complex. Using transit, it will take a bus ride to get from the LRT station to the DND complex.

But going eastbound, most commuters will need to bus to the LRT station, walk, bike or get dropped off.

The city says there might be potential to offer parking permits if spaces are available at the Abbott Industries lot north of the station, but the city itself won’t build a park and ride facility.

The report says a parking deck would likely be required because of the space constraints. The structure could become obsolete when the city extends LRT to Kanata in a future Stage 3. Plus, a parking facility would inappropriately encourage car traffic across the Greenbelt, the report says.

The Stage 2 LRT expansion would bring trains to Moodie Drive, Algonquin College, Trim Road, Earl Armstrong Road and the Ottawa International Airport.

Stage 1 of LRT between Tunney’s Pasture and Blair station is scheduled to open in 2018.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/09/01/mood...ave-park-and-ride-because-theres-no-room

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

There are two branches in Stage 2, maybe they don't think the Kanata branch would ever need 120m platforms, and only the baseline branch will get them (I'm pretty sure it had 120m in the plans in the EA)

With only half the trains going to Kanata, I assume they will need to be full length. I don't think a coupling and uncoupling process is going to efficient enough and even if it were, are we going to somehow get Kanata bound passengers in only one car downtown? Sounds like a recipe for total confusion.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

With only half the trains going to Kanata, I assume they will need to be full length. I don't think a coupling and uncoupling process is going to efficient enough and even if it were, are we going to somehow get Kanata bound passengers in only one car downtown? Sounds like a recipe for total confusion.

Not quite what i meant. The trains are currently 4 modules in each car for a total of 8. Maybe if demand was there, they'd add a module (11m) to one of the cars for a total of 9, which would fit with the 10m protected extension. Adding a module is non trivial and expensive, so maybe they never plan to run a double 5 module train on the Kanata branch