SkyCity Centre Winnipeg | 45F | 575 Ft | 175.26 M | Cancelled

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I know. I hate them for taking down a single story ugly building with some low end tenants. ANd then forcing a tall glass tower on us full of people living there. And then forcing us woth a hotel tower full of guests. Shame on them. Gtfo of our city and leave it alone.
That better ?

But there's no reason we couldn't have had all that and them still follow the RULES that were in place, and would have made the development even better. We don't need to settle here any more. We're past that.

[Jets4Life]

I'm not sure if any member has posted this blog article. It's an interesting read:



http://heritagewinnipeg.blogspot.ca/

"The sale of the St. Regis Hotel has raised many eyebrows for a variety of reasons. It seems counterintuitive to choose Fortress, a company from outside Manitoba, with a long record of projects that fail to even break ground, to be a rejuvenating force in Winnipeg. Unfortunately, the redevelopment of the St. Regis seemed to be following Fortress’ previous pattern of inactivity, with the company missing its April 30, 2017 deadline for starting construction. CentreVenture choose to extend the deadline by a year, asserting that development is complicated and they can always repossess the building if no construction takes place. The city has also stated that they will not allow demolition of the hotel until Fortress can prove that their finances are in order.

Beyond the questionable choice of developers, the building of a parkade and commercial complex also seem in opposition to sound city planning. Vibrant cities have lively streetscapes filled with mixed use buildings and cater to pedestrian needs. Winnipeg already has approximately 39,000 parking spots and pedestrians are unable to cross its most celebrated intersection, Portage Avenue and Main Street. Clearly, the development community is not interested in building a walkable city and has little regard for the environmental impact of demolishing buildings and encouraging the use of private vehicles."

[Winnipeg Grump]

Originally Posted by headhorse

^ it's shameless gentrification, it hasn't been a net positive for downtown, and honestly send the whole lot back to Atlanta if they're going to keep having tax incentives and not follow the same rules that everyone else has to.

I'm going to assume that comment is pure sarcasm. Because if it isn't ...

[biguc]

Originally Posted by buzzg

But there's no reason we couldn't have had all that and them still follow the RULES that were in place, and would have made the development even better. We don't need to settle here any more. We're past that.

The thing is, they've probably shot themselves in the foot by not putting retail in the parkade. The Alabama block was full of small, independent businesses by and for the community. In their attempt to wall off their neighbours to the north, True North only created a dead zone for bums to congregate. You'd never see the kind of derelict loitering that goes on at the Glasshouse parkade when the Alabama Block existed because the business owners and users wouldn't tolerate it.

[Urban recluse]

What about the lease rates? Would anyone pay higher prices in that area? There are so many vacant spaces throughout downtown, I suspect the struggle to rent the spaces out would be real...

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

What about the lease rates? Would anyone pay higher prices in that area? There are so many vacant spaces throughout downtown, I suspect the struggle to rent the spaces out would be real...

Well they'd have to make their units more attractive to tenants than other units are. Ya know, competition etc. I think that the location of this, well positioned near both 300 main and potentially skycity if it proceeds, would be the main selling feature. I can't imagine selling units would be tough if you were expecting in the neighbourhood of 1200 new residents to be living nearby.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Well they'd have to make their units more attractive to tenants than other units are. Ya know, competition etc. I think that the location of this, well positioned near both 300 main and potentially skycity if it proceeds, would be the main selling feature. I can't imagine selling units would be tough if you were expecting in the neighbourhood of 1200 new residents to be living nearby.

Sorry, I was referring to CP parkade, not SkyCity. I feel this parkade's CRUs will be easier to fill.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Albert Street parkade is a perfect example of the effort not being worth it, even when the units are built....those would be easy rentals.

I don't fully understand this. They're easy rentals, the units are built, but the owners just throw away potential revenues from commercial leases? What's the "effort" involved here?

[Urban recluse]

How about renovating the exteriors, and start marketing the damn things.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't think that strip of Smith is really all that great right now... there is virtually no retail on that stretch apart from a questionable little pharmacy and a denture clinic. That said, if the CRUs get leased, that will change the feel dramatically.

I guess the big difference is that the Smith parkade doesn't have the effects of an LC across the street to contend with. But then again, the commercial building that stood there before the parkade was pretty much leased out (admittedly with lower-end tenants, but still).

Smith ain't great right now but between a small increase in businesses between portage and graham, TNS, SkyCity, and 300 Main's future added residents, transit accessibility, Convention Centre expansion, Hydro and the slow improvement of Graham West and of course the constant attention the Shed gets, there is positive momentum in that area. There's nothing there now but it's the type of spot than can succeed when densified.

North of Portage and southwest of the Exchange, however, is completely different.

Originally Posted by headhorse

^ it's shameless gentrification, it hasn't been a net positive for downtown, and honestly send the whole lot back to Atlanta if they're going to keep having tax incentives and not follow the same rules that everyone else has to.

Lol.

What has been a net positive for downtown Winnipeg in the last 25+ years?

As far as tax incentives, NONE of these projects would be going ahead without them due to costs... that's been discussed at length here and is mostly agreed upon by all. I personally have been told some rough figures of some projects downtown; in my limited capacity can attest that nobody would touch a downtown project without help.

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I'm not sure if any member has posted this blog article. It's an interesting read:



http://heritagewinnipeg.blogspot.ca/

"The sale of the St. Regis Hotel has raised many eyebrows for a variety of reasons. It seems counterintuitive to choose Fortress, a company from outside Manitoba, with a long record of projects that fail to even break ground, to be a rejuvenating force in Winnipeg. Unfortunately, the redevelopment of the St. Regis seemed to be following Fortress’ previous pattern of inactivity, with the company missing its April 30, 2017 deadline for starting construction. CentreVenture choose to extend the deadline by a year, asserting that development is complicated and they can always repossess the building if no construction takes place. The city has also stated that they will not allow demolition of the hotel until Fortress can prove that their finances are in order.

Beyond the questionable choice of developers, the building of a parkade and commercial complex also seem in opposition to sound city planning. Vibrant cities have lively streetscapes filled with mixed use buildings and cater to pedestrian needs. Winnipeg already has approximately 39,000 parking spots and pedestrians are unable to cross its most celebrated intersection, Portage Avenue and Main Street. Clearly, the development community is not interested in building a walkable city and has little regard for the environmental impact of demolishing buildings and encouraging the use of private vehicles."

I don't mind their opinion, but they could do a better job of appearing more objective rather than partisan about the matter...

One thing we do not know is how much they do or don't need this parkade to proceed... if they need it to trim overall tower costs or meet code requirments,l or market demand, regardless, they wouldn't do this unless it was necessary (theoretically). Why go through this headache if you didn't have to?

With that in mind, I'd expect Heritage Winnipeg to want more facts before being publically brazen, although I ultimately agree with the principle of what they're saying.

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

What about the lease rates? Would anyone pay higher prices in that area? There are so many vacant spaces throughout downtown, I suspect the struggle to rent the spaces out would be real...

Perhaps I'm a drain for people when discussing parkades or the balance between heritage and newer commercial development, but you're correct, and I don't know why I, or anyone else, would have to say this 1000 times.


------------------

I recall a discussion with my wife a few years back... I can't recall the statement I made, but we were at odds.

she said: "you think you're right? You think your view on this matter is correct???"

Me: "No kidding! Why else would I say it???"

[Urban recluse]

[buzzg]

I think CRUS in the Centrepoint parkade would have actually been fairly attractive. There will be lots of residents on the sidewalk there, that stretch of Portage is always busy. With the Snap there now, the restaurant going in on Hargrave (former 4Play entrance), the CRU in Glasshouse... it could have been a pretty good strip.

And in terms of the 201 Portage parkade, I don't see any argument for not leasing it out either. They're really shallow units too, which is actually missing in the Exchange. Could see a lot of potential for small office/retail there. Clothing designers looking to get into a shop, boutique offices, etc.

And for the Fortress parkade, I do personally think the St. Regis would make a great heritage redevelopment. Whether to a boutique hotel, offices, etc. - it's a pretty nice, functional building. But my guess is Fortress probably has the money to do this part, so will use it as a delay tactic to figure out what (if anything) will happen at SkyCity.

[Gm0ney]

Is SkyCity building an additional parkade for the tenants?

[bomberjet]

^Yeah there's a huge parkade in the podium of SkyCity. 700 stalls from what I can tell. Think we went through this recently. So they'll have two parkades right next door to each other.

Edit: https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/skycity-bonds-speculative-260372621.html

Although that article is a couple years old, it notes the 700 stall number. In another article, it notes the St. Regis parkade as being 290 stalls on the top 4 levels. So that's ~1000 parking stalls Fortress plans on building in the same block half block.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Gm0ney

Is SkyCity building an additional parkade for the tenants?

Unknown. Likely they'd open it to them first. I don't think they ever said how many spots would be in the tower, so maybe they thought it wouldn't be enough between residents and commercial tenants. Or they knew it'd be a good delay tactic...

[WolselyMan]

So let me get this straight, Wolf. Because the parkade is located in a lifeless neighborhood, that justifies reinforcing it's lifelessness with no CRU's, because their won't be anyone around to bring business to those units? Even though the whole goal of Centrepoint was to bring people into the area in the first place? So what if the CRU had to remain vacant for a while. If TNSE had any faith in the whole development that they were funding, they would've assured themselves that a tenant would be found eventually. But now thanks to their laziness, we have a spot that will always remain vacant, because you can't put anything there to begin with anyways.

There's a fine line between pragmatism and cynicism.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

I don't mind their opinion, but they could do a better job of appearing more objective rather than partisan about the matter...

One thing we do not know is how much they do or don't need this parkade to proceed... if they need it to trim overall tower costs or meet code requirments,l or market demand, regardless, they wouldn't do this unless it was necessary (theoretically). Why go through this headache if you didn't have to?

With that in mind, I'd expect Heritage Winnipeg to want more facts before being publically brazen, although I ultimately agree with the principle of what they're saying.

It amazes me that any other forum/comment section that is discussing SkyCity, the consensus is that nearly 100% of people with common sense can see through it. It's never going to happen, which brings me to two observations.

1. Why are there shills for Fortress on this site? I was under the impression that shilling for a particular company was against forum rules, but I could be wrong.

2. A vocal minority of some of the regular posters is hell bent on seeing SkyCity built, common sense be dammed. All you have to do is investigate the company and realize of all the projects they have proposed in different Canadian Cities, they have built absolutely nothing.

I wish people would stop drinking the kool-aid, and do some research on this company.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by robertocarlos

There were 10 or more stores on the Glasshouse parkade site. TNSE was going to help with the rent. Don't apologize for TNSE, they are a bunch of liars. Lying comes from their used car sales background.

Maybe we should drive them out of town as one member suggested, since True North has never done anything beneficial for the city of Winnipeg.

-True North never brought an AHL pro hockey team to Winnipeg for 15 years
-True North never had any input or in any way were instrumental in building a 15,000 seat state-of-the-art entertainment complex
-True North never brought back NHL hockey, which shaped the identity of the city to outsiders for 1/4 of a century
-True North has no plans on developing projects like the TNS to provide a meeting place in the heart of downtown.

Let's just run Chipman and his multi-billionaire partner out of town. We should let companies that are more reputable like Fortress take over this city, no questions asked.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

This parkade/tower is NEVER going to get built. It amazes me that any other forum/comment section that is discussing SkyCity, the consensus is that nearly 100% of people with common sense can see through it. It's never going to happen, which brings me to two observations.

1. Why are there shills for Fortress on this site? I was under the impression that shilling for a particular company was against forum rules, but I could be wrong.

2. A vocal minority of some of the regular posters is hell bent on seeing SkyCity built, common sense be dammed. All you have to do is investigate the company and realize of all the projects they have proposed in different Canadian Cities, they have built absolutely nothing. To the impartial forum member, the conclusion would be NO skyscraper, and NO parking lot built (at least not before 2027, unless another company is allowed to take it over).

I wish people would stop drinking the kool-aid, and do some research on this company. It's never going to happen.

Fortress should pack their 🞵🞵🞵🞵, and get the hell out of Winnipeg.

Dogmatically insisting it WON'T be built could be construed as being on the "Kool-Aid" as well. I would remind people of DCondo which just topped out which wasn't supposed to make it off the ground either.

And who cares if the investors have common sense or not? It's not your money, if it gets built then we have a sweet new tower for our skyline. IF not, we just had a damn good discussion for the last four years. Can't we just have our fun and speculate without having to bash our faces into the desk and crying repeatedly, "I get it! I get it! It's probably not gonna get built!"

If the thing gets built then it'll be the best 6.5 million the city ever spent or whatever the figure for that incentive is.

[robertocarlos]

At the Bruno Mars concert I was hanging around at Donald and Portage and the police gave some pan-handlers in front of the bargain store on the other side of Donald the bum's rush. He told them to move two blocks north and they left. Don't stand still close to BellMTS Place with a large cup in hand. It's not good for our image. Meanwhile cars at Portage and Donald were breaking every road rule known to man and not a cop car in site.

We have been beaten into submission that SkyCity will be built and like BellMTS Place it will be a net positive for downtown. It can't get any worse than it was 15 years ago.