Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

I thought we weren't supposed to negotiate with terrorists.

Apparently Canada gives them $10.5 million.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Apparently Canada gives them $10.5 million.

and says "oops ... sorry, eh".

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Also too lazy to find a link from five years ago, sorry - their rep said they want TransLink to pay for all of it. Also said LRT is good enough because it's cheaper.

That is because Patrick Condon is the professor of Urban Design at UBC and it would look bad to not eat their own dog food. Patrick Condon wants street cars everywhere and thinks the skytrain is bad, hence, he tries to get as much screen time as possible whenever anything remotely bad happens on the Skytrain despite the skytrain having a flawless record.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Just noticed another route to ubc

West on Broadway past alma, still west under Broadway after it curves and becomes w 8th ave

Under Jericho garrison lands and lining up with the curve of 4th ave. A Jericho station as part of the new housing in the Jericho lands redevelopment. Use a transit improvement tax on all the new condos and other housing here to pay for this segment

Originally Posted by logan5

On the subject of the Jericho lands i too hope to see a station at least roughed in there. Though i think it would be best if Jericho station was placed smack dab in the middle of the Jericho lands, a few hundred meters north of 8th.

For one, this would satisfy the residents along 8th Ave who would surely protest the hell of a station anywhere near them. It would also serve this new dense neighbourhood a lot better, and garner more contributions from developers.

Logically, the densities here should be very high...

I just looked up some info on the Jericho lands.

Vancouver Sun Apr 9, 2016

The sale of the 38.8-acre parcel, which was announced Friday, gives the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh control over the majority of the 90-acre Jericho Lands. In late 2014, they partnered with the Canada Lands Company to buy the adjacent 52-acre federal portion of the property for $237 million.

...

The provincial Jericho property is roughly the western half of a large tract that runs from Fourth Avenue to Broadway, west of Highbury St. The federal Jericho Garrison, headquarters of the Canadian Army’s 39th Brigade Reserves, occupies the eastern half.

Part of the provincial lands are leased to West Point Grey Academy, a private school, until 2020, the same year the federal government is to vacate its portion of the property.

While there is likely to be some decent density they're not going to start building for at least a couple of years, and considering the size of the site it's going to take quite some time to build it out.

I had previously imagined the Broadway extension turning at Alma and continuing down 10th like the bus does - but a subway doesn't need to do that (esp as 10th isn't that built up either). I traced it out on google maps and after Arbutus I put stops at Macdonald and Alma, and then a stop at 8th & Courtenay and a terminus station at 8th & Blanca. They can run UBC buses from the Blanca loop.

But that's waaaaaaay in the future. Phase one to Arbutus isn't likely to be completed until 2025.

Vancouver Courier Apr 27, 2016

Campbell explained that achieving higher density would increase the land value and make it easier to gain financing to payoff the provincial loan. He mentioned the potential to build single-detached houses on the top of the property, townhouses down the slope and midrises and highrises along West Fourth Avenue. He told attendees to expect opposition.

“If you can get a 2.0 [floor space ratio] or more, you can get a lot of highrises, but that means that the discussions with local residents, they’re going to give us feedback, they’re going to give us pushback,” he warned. “They’re going to argue that we’re blocking their views, that they have a say. The local politicians over there are already beaking-off and chirping. You’ll see in the media that [David] Eby, the NDP critic for the province is already talking, as well as Joyce Murray, the federal MP.”

Campbell said the trio has talked with Mayor Gregor Robertson and city hall bureaucrats. “They’re saying yes, there’s a relationship with the city, a city of reconciliation,” but the rezoning process could take two or three years and there are no guarantees.

Campbell said the trio had also met with the West Point Grey Residents Association, but “they seem to think they have a lot of power over there as non-native residents. We’re saying that’s fine, you benefited for 150 years at our expense, it’s now our turn to step in here.”

It's no wonder TransLink doesn't want to step into that fight anytime soon.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Just noticed another route to ubc

West on Broadway past alma, still west under Broadway after it curves and becomes w 8th ave

Under Jericho garrison lands and lining up with the curve of 4th ave. A Jericho station as part of the new housing in the Jericho lands redevelopment. Use a transit improvement tax on all the new condos and other housing here to pay for this segment

Tracks run under w 4th and Chancellor Blvd entering the campus, a station at Acadia, and continuing westward under Chancellor.

Down East mall, going south through the campus to terminate near thunderbird stadium.

Stations at Chan Center, University Blvd, w 16th?

UBC gets to pay for their segment under the endowment lands and UBC itself, not unlike how Quebec pension paid for some of the Canada line as a p3 partner

Although knowing little about financing plans, may I say I think that's a great rrt line routing idea. Also, about how deep would these stations be? Very deep, due to the Point Grey escarpment, or bored "uphill," thereby making them shallower?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I just looked up some info on the Jericho lands.

While there is likely to be some decent density they're not going to start building for at least a couple of years, and considering the size of the site it's going to take quite some time to build it out.

I had previously imagined the Broadway extension turning at Alma and continuing down 10th like the bus does - but a subway doesn't need to do that (esp as 10th isn't that built up either). I traced it out on google maps and after Arbutus I put stops at Macdonald and Alma, and then a stop at 8th & Courtenay and a terminus station at 8th & Blanca. They can run UBC buses from the Blanca loop.

But that's waaaaaaay in the future. Phase one to Arbutus isn't likely to be completed until 2025.

It's no wonder TransLink doesn't want to step into that fight anytime soon.

I won't be surprised if the Jericho redevelopment plans has density greater than the Olympic Village and taller buildings, but thats another SSP thread.

[ClaytonA]

Jericho Lands may be starting just as the Broadway extention finishes up. Is it better to add capacity before the congestion gets too onerous or afterward? On the roads thread they're discussing how Hwy 1 backs up from North Van to Burnaby Lakes regularly (even this weekend with accidents).

[ClaytonA]

This extention takes 10min off the trip time from Commercial-Broadway to Arbutus.
Right now all those E-W bus routes have travel times within +/-2min or so with the congestion (long lines to get on the 99 bus). The average travel length's are long enough that most trips are coming from the Canada Line or Expo Line (e.g. 12.4km vs 13.4km total route length). How many more buses get put on the Broadway loop between Skytrain at Arbutus and Wesbrook? What is the result of this on other modes? On the buses themselves for example at the transit exchanges?

Will the lineups for the 99 bus just get 10min longer in 2024/2025 when the extention is done; thereby equalizing the travel time again across all transit options? When a freeway gets built, people are willing to live farther away because now the commute time is the same (at least in the short run). It is people's time that matters.

It'd be interesting to see Translink's transportation model on this. Then add Jericho Lands (even more demand). Then add competing regional demands for funding (e.g. North Shore), and the belief, despite taxes being the lowest in 30-40 years, that people are over-taxed. We all pay one way or the other.

[M00dy]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

[armchair] SkyTrain can climb a 5% grade (e.g. 5m of rise for every 100m of run), so theoretically, the M-Line could run above ground west of Camosun. [/armchair]

In practice, the NIMBYs would shoot down anything elevated... actually, come to think of it, they'd probably shoot down any kind of RRT past Alma.

6% max, not 5%

[Hooknose]

It has been two weeks since the last post on the UBC line.

Has the gossip about this project dried up completely?

[retro_orange]

It's the summer. This forum and most threads slow to a trickle this time of year. Not much new info is published from sources until September when things are back to normal.

[elevtechlift]

Originally Posted by Kisai

That is because Patrick Condon is the professor of Urban Design at UBC and it would look bad to not eat their own dog food. Patrick Condon wants street cars everywhere and thinks the skytrain is bad, hence, he tries to get as much screen time as possible whenever anything remotely bad happens on the Skytrain despite the skytrain having a flawless record.

I would rather see a change in BRT vehicle design that look and operate more like this instead of reintroducing streetcars/trams/LRTs. Also would rather introduce Solar Roadways to the region and province for streets, busways, highways, etc. Would also like to see more SkyTrain expansions and extensions along with introduction of AGT (• Video Link• Video Link), APM (• Video Link• Video Link), and Monorail (• Video Link• Video Link• Video Link• Video Link• Video Link) systems as part of the SkyTrain rapid transit network.

[ilikeredheads]

I really don't think Vancouver needs monorail.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Nor solar roadways - might as well put the panels directly on the cars, for all the good it'll do.

[elevtechlift]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Nor solar roadways - might as well put the panels directly on the cars, for all the good it'll do.

Solar Roadways is more than just power collection. I suggested having Solar Roadways also for road safety and better road maintenance. Yes, buses and SkyTrain should still have solar panels on top to reduce load requirements for BC Hydro generators. Instead of repaving and repainting roadways and replacing reflectors constantly, why not instead repair and replace solar panel segments and program the LED road markings. Also at night the markings would be easier to see and additional warning notifications can be seen on roadways over just static and electronic roadside sign posts. Each panel should have built-in heaters so ice and snow can melt without having any salt. Furthermore, I suggested Solar Roadways is to also supplement the power grid and reducing load requirements on the generators.

[elevtechlift]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

I really don't think Vancouver needs monorail.

For the AGTs, APMs, and Monorails, it was meant for more than just Vancouver. It was also for other municipalities within Metro Vancouver.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by elevtechlift

Solar Roadways is more than just power collection. I suggested having Solar Roadways also for road safety and better road maintenance.

Oh, there's going to be a lot of maintenance, alright. And not much electricity. Not a good idea to have thousand-kilo vehicles driving over your solar panels every two seconds, if only because all that traffic will, er, block the sun.

Originally Posted by elevtechlift

Yes, buses and SkyTrain should still have solar panels on top to reduce load requirements for BC Hydro generators.

That isn't going to be much of a reduction; notice how long the sun takes to dry your laundry? Solar energy (even with a clear sky) comes slowly and gradually over the course of the day, whereas vehicles need it all at once - the best you can do is put a solar panel on a charging station and collect it from there, like electric bikes and cars.

Originally Posted by elevtechlift

Instead of repaving and repainting roadways and replacing reflectors constantly, why not instead repair and replace solar panel segments and program the LED road markings.

I asked that question when I was thirteen (albeit with metal plates, not solar panels). Answer: ripping up and repaving asphalt is both cheaper and easier. 10 centimetres of asphalt is more suitable for supporting vehicles, too.

Ditto reflectors, since their light comes from reflecting off car headlights, instead of needing a power supply and bulb and microchip. Electronics are pretty sensitive.

Originally Posted by elevtechlift

Each panel should have built-in heaters so ice and snow can melt without having any salt. Furthermore, I suggested Solar Roadways is to also supplement the power grid and reducing load requirements on the generators.

A) Again, the power draw from a solar roadway is already negligible, given that all the traffic will be blocking the sun... even worse if it's winter. Add heaters to the mix, and you'll be using electricity from the grid just to keep them running, just like most renewables in bad weather.
B) That's also assuming that melting snow won't screw with the panels.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by elevtechlift

For the AGTs, APMs, and Monorails, it was meant for more than just Vancouver. It was also for other municipalities within Metro Vancouver.

I'll let the expert handle this one.

[ilikeredheads]

solar roadways is a fantasy and highly impractical. Expensive to build and maintain. Questionable durability and weather dependent. The more traffic there is, the less energy it generates because they are blocked by the vehicles most of the time. Just imagine being run over by 2 ton trucks constantly. Those panels won't last a day. Most importantly, our climate rains at least 6 months a year. When snow comes they are completely useless and most likely damaged by cold temperature and ice build up.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

solar roadway LOL talkl about the maintenance required for that. and the talk about heating them??? you really think they will produce enough electricity to balance out the need? imagine when it is bumper to bumper traffic, all that lost solar energy due to cars on-top.

you want to know why they dont use LED lane markings more? look at the Massey Tunnel lane lines. it is NO LANE CHANGE Zone and yet at least 50% of them are broken due to being run over by cars/trucks/buses. imagine that on the entire lane. no way that would work.

what we really need are proper cats eyes in BC. the proper ones with the round reflectors in them. and when they are run over they get pushed into the protective housing instead of being smashed under a truck like all of ours are; you see them a lot in the UK and they still use them all these years later.

Cats Eye Reflector