Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Aroundtheworld]

The big thing holding up the extension to UBC I believe is the mayors want the university to chip in. Obviously, the university would prefer to have a free lunch and pay nothing, therefore it is only planned to Arbutus for now.

I bet you if the University said they would contribute $1 B towards it, the plan would change tomorrow and it would go to UBC. I also don't think it's too ridiculous to ask. UBC Point Grey has about 50,000 students. If you were to do a tuition fee increase over 30 years, it averages out to about $670 per student. As someone who had to commute to UBC, I would happily pay for this if it meant using Skytrain instead of the horror that is 99 B-Line. It should only apply to students after it has been built.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

i dont see why a line continuing west on broadway from arbutus cant do the zig/zag at alma (running under the gas station and strip mall sites) to get from broadway to 10th.

there may be a 'diagonal station' at alma replacing the 7/11 mall and gas station where trains need to slow down anyhow to stop at the alma station.

A similar idea has crossed my mind. A turn going diagonally to Alma station. And if worse comes to worst, is it not feasible to at least extend it to Alma, rather than just Arbutus?
Alma station - if they cannot or will not extend it to UBC - could be a transit hub, with shuttles going to UBC every 10 minutes, and down Dunbar to cover West Point Grey.
An rrt line along 41st Ave is rather over ambitious, but having a B-Line with connecting runs to the main Broadway rrt might just pull the West Side transit system together integrally.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

The big thing holding up the extension to UBC I believe is the mayors want the university to chip in. Obviously, the university would prefer to have a free lunch and pay nothing, therefore it is only planned to Arbutus for now.

I bet you if the University said they would contribute $1 B towards it, the plan would change tomorrow and it would go to UBC.

Exactly. The airport set a great precedent by funding it's portion of the line, and as part of the deal they had a lot of input into station positioning and the right to collect a surcharge on fares. The process would serve as a great template for getting University funding.

SFU could use same process to get its gondola built.

[jsbertram]

Just noticed another route to ubc

West on Broadway past alma, still west under Broadway after it curves and becomes w 8th ave

Under Jericho garrison lands and lining up with the curve of 4th ave. A Jericho station as part of the new housing in the Jericho lands redevelopment. Use a transit improvement tax on all the new condos and other housing here to pay for this segment

Tracks run under w 4th and Chancellor Blvd entering the campus, a station at Acadia, and continuing westward under Chancellor.

Down East mall, going south through the campus to terminate near thunderbird stadium.

Stations at Chan Center, University Blvd, w 16th?

UBC gets to pay for their segment under the endowment lands and UBC itself, not unlike how Quebec pension paid for some of the Canada line as a p3 partner

[Hot Rod]

i like the idea of there being more stations in the UBC area/lands and placing a surcharge on condo and apartment developments in the areas served with the University paying for it's several stations and routing.

Now, how do we get them to the table so we can build the whole darn thing?

[Hot Rod]

One other thing I was wondering, why do we have to wait for the entire line to finish construction for it to open?

Couldn't we phase construction to follow the TBM - where we work on the station ahead of time so that once the TBC reaches and clears it, that station becomes the new MLine terminus.

For example, we build the enhancements to Cambie/City Hall station (including more/proper exits and perhaps go ahead and extend the Canada Line platforms while we're at it), then the TBC reaches and clears the station; track is laid and then MLine terminates there. Then Oak, then Granville, then Arbutus, then (assuming we keep going) McDonald, Alma, so on. .... This would be a HUGE win for the system as MLine connectivity to Canada Line provides another transfer point along with being able to service employment areas in the Midtown CBD sooner.

BLine would still run until the full line is open, but why can't we phase the opening of the line expanding the terminal point as we proceed west. ...

[ilikeredheads]

^a lot of testing needs to be done once construction is complete, so it doesn't make sense to open it as you build it.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Just noticed another route to ubc

West on Broadway past alma, still west under Broadway after it curves and becomes w 8th ave

Under Jericho garrison lands and lining up with the curve of 4th ave. A Jericho station as part of the new housing in the Jericho lands redevelopment. Use a transit improvement tax on all the new condos and other housing here to pay for this segment

Tracks run under w 4th and Chancellor Blvd entering the campus, a station at Acadia, and continuing westward under Chancellor.

Down East mall, going south through the campus to terminate near thunderbird stadium.

Stations at Chan Center, University Blvd, w 16th?

UBC gets to pay for their segment under the endowment lands and UBC itself, not unlike how Quebec pension paid for some of the Canada line as a p3 partner

I think we have a winner.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

this isn't a fantasy thread with the Millennium-Line looping around the city people. it isn't going anywhere but to UBC in the next 30 years.

Agreed. And before we talk about building another West-East connecting line, we will probably upgrade the Expo line stations to accommodate longer trains which will be something that will happen before we do any extra work.

Now I have a question for all of you Skytrain engineering experts out there: if the skytrain were to continue west to UBC, will it resurface?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by scryer

Now I have a question for all of you Skytrain engineering experts out there: if the skytrain were to continue west to UBC, will it resurface?

[armchair] SkyTrain can climb a 5% grade (e.g. 5m of rise for every 100m of run), so theoretically, the M-Line could run above ground west of Camosun. [/armchair]

In practice, the NIMBYs would shoot down anything elevated... actually, come to think of it, they'd probably shoot down any kind of RRT past Alma.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Exactly. The airport set a great precedent by funding it's portion of the line, and as part of the deal they had a lot of input into station positioning and the right to collect a surcharge on fares. The process would serve as a great template for getting University funding.

SFU could use same process to get its gondola built.

That $5 surcharge goes to TransLink - not the airport. Also SFU was willing to chip in towards building the gondola.

TransLink is responsible for setting and collecting all transit fares. The YVR AddFare is collected by TransLink to help pay funding obligations associated with construction of Canada Line.

Vancouver Airport Authority doesn't receive any portion of the revenue collected from the AddFare. The Airport Authority fully paid construction costs associated with all portions of the Canada Line on Sea Island, including the three stations.

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

One other thing I was wondering, why do we have to wait for the entire line to finish construction for it to open?

Couldn't we phase construction to follow the TBM - where we work on the station ahead of time so that once the TBC reaches and clears it, that station becomes the new MLine terminus.

I wondered about that ages ago now and was told that with testing, etc it can't be done. I didn't think they needed to open stations one by one, but opening the VCC to Canada Line section first would be handy. Alas it's not to be.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

[armchair] SkyTrain can climb a 5% grade (e.g. 5m of rise for every 100m of run), so theoretically, the M-Line could run above ground west of Camosun. [/armchair]

In practice, the NIMBYs would shoot down anything elevated... actually, come to think of it, they'd probably shoot down any kind of RRT past Alma.

Which is likely another reason they decided to do Phase 1 to Arbutus - at least that way they get part of the line built. It's why Canada Line was the third line built instead of being the first one (South Granville nimbys).

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Which is likely another reason they decided to do Phase 1 to Arbutus - at least that way they get part of the line built. It's why Canada Line was the third line built instead of being the first one (South Granville nimbys).

I thought we weren't supposed to negotiate with terrorists.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

That $5 surcharge goes to TransLink - not the airport. Also SFU was willing to chip in towards building the gondola.

It's odd that the university that prides itself on being in the world's Top 50... is the only institution in Vancouver that doesn't understand that rapid transit is worth every penny.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

It's odd that the university that prides itself on being in the world's Top 50... is the only institution in Vancouver that doesn't understand that rapid transit is worth every penny.

It might have been mentioned before (I'm not going to go searching back) but has UBC refused money for it?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

It might have been mentioned before (I'm not going to go searching back) but has UBC refused money for it?

Also too lazy to find a link from five years ago, sorry - their rep said they want TransLink to pay for all of it. Also said LRT is good enough because it's cheaper.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

One other thing I was wondering, why do we have to wait for the entire line to finish construction for it to open?

Couldn't we phase construction to follow the TBM - where we work on the station ahead of time so that once the TBC reaches and clears it, that station becomes the new MLine terminus.

For example, we build the enhancements to Cambie/City Hall station (including more/proper exits and perhaps go ahead and extend the Canada Line platforms while we're at it), then the TBC reaches and clears the station; track is laid and then MLine terminates there. Then Oak, then Granville, then Arbutus, then (assuming we keep going) McDonald, Alma, so on. .... This would be a HUGE win for the system as MLine connectivity to Canada Line provides another transfer point along with being able to service employment areas in the Midtown CBD sooner.

BLine would still run until the full line is open, but why can't we phase the opening of the line expanding the terminal point as we proceed west. ...

part of the problem is the construction equipment, the conveyor belt for muck and other debris, and the construction tracks in the tunnel created by the tbm that needs to run from the construction pit at will become the gnw station to the tbm at the west end of the tunnel. also the special lighting, air ducts, construction power and water needs during construction are different than what the skytrain cars need. Since gnw station site would start out as the tunnel portal construction pit during construction, it cant have trains going through the construction pit . Only when the pit is rebuilt as gnw station to connect the finished tunnel with the elevated tracks north of gnw campus and connecting to vcc station, will the tracks and tunnels be capable of running test trains and then revenue trains.

the evergreen extension elevated and outdoor sections were completed before the clark tunnel, so to do testing east of the tunnel, a train was trucked to falcon yard and placed back on the tracks. The section west of the tunnel was tested by running trains between Lougheed to Burquitlam. Only after the tunnel was finished (and construction equipment and personnel removed from the tracks) were test trains run trough it between Lougheed and Lafarge Lake

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Also too lazy to find a link from five years ago, sorry - their rep said they want TransLink to pay for all of it. Also said LRT is good enough because it's cheaper.

If that's gonna be their attitude then the extension should be built to the Jericho lands redevelopment and on the UBC endowment lands they can build their own goofy LRT micro-system and pay for it.

[logan5]

On the subject of the Jericho lands i too hope to see a station at least roughed in there. Though i think it would be best if Jericho station was placed smack dab in the middle of the Jericho lands, a few hundred meters north of 8th.

For one, this would satisfy the residents along 8th Ave who would surely protest the hell of a station anywhere near them. It would also serve this new dense neighbourhood a lot better, and garner more contributions from developers.

Logically, the densities here should be very high...

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Also too lazy to find a link from five years ago, sorry - their rep said they want TransLink to pay for all of it. Also said LRT is good enough because it's cheaper.

Originally Posted by retro_orange

If that's gonna be their attitude then the extension should be built to the Jericho lands redevelopment and on the UBC endowment lands they can build their own goofy LRT micro-system and pay for it.

Looking at google maps in 3D satellite view you can really see which areas are built up - and not long after Arbutus it drops down to low rise residential. I'm sure we'll be able to survive the Skytrain not going right to UBC anytime soon.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Looking at google maps in 3D satellite view you can really see which areas are built up - and not long after Arbutus it drops down to low rise residential. I'm sure we'll be able to survive the Skytrain not going right to UBC anytime soon.

The issue is more-so getting students to UBC. There's also many medical facilities and quite alot of density existing and going in near UBC. They just can't be bothered to fund efficient transit to the density they built in their little city of UBC. The area of SFH from Arbutus well into the endowment lands is a dead zone until you get to where the apartments are near UBC.

A station at Macdonald and one at the Jericho lands would be suffice. They can add another station or two in Kits in 20 or 30 years if the density should ever come.