Calgary International Airport II

[Tobuz]

Two and a half hours after the big public reveal by Frontier and by most of their new destination airports (all at 11am Mountain this morning) the new routes have been picked up by mainstream local and national media across the U.S. A quick scan of Google shows that the route expansion has made the news from Buffalo to Las Vegas to Oklahoma City to Colorado Springs to Long Island ... all saying 'our city is getting new air service'.

But, here in Calgary, not a single peep out of the folks at YYC yet.

You'd think that any new route would be a big PR opportunity for an airport authority, and that they'd want to be out at the front of the wave of info to get their message across effectively.

The silence is odd.

Perhaps Frontier forgot to let YYC know they were coming?

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Wonder why WestJet has never flown to Denver? Seems there would be more market than some of their US routes (ie. Dallas DFW)

I'm sure Cage could weigh in on this with some stats, but my hunch is it's because YYC-DEN isn't a big O&D market.

Most Calgary-Denver traffic is connecting traffic.

That means it's not a good fit for WS.

[tuffyy]

Weird is right.

Hopefully they can make a go of it this time unlike the first time they entered the YYC market.

I expect they are also targeting connections at DEN with the airlines growing network.

I expect UA will try to push them off the route as quickly as possible.

[The Fisher Account]

Will definitely start flying with them if YYC-DEN-PSP ends up being cheaper than YYC-PSP on Westjet (which it probably will)

[Cage]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Wonder why WestJet has never flown to Denver? Seems there would be more market than some of their US routes (ie. Dallas DFW)

WS has traditionally shied away from *A hub to hub routes. Under the original AC-UA transborder JV (that was never enacted by the airlines), there was a sunset clause to the route carve out. If a third airline got onto the route for one full IATA schedule season, the route carve out was dropped. Out of YYC, this meant IAH, DEN, and ORD were part of the carve out (SFO has been a WS city for a while).

There is a substantial amount of O&D on YYC-DEN, however origin distribution of 60/40 in favour of YYC. Traditionally WS does not do well on routes that have more than 20% USA point of sale.

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Two and a half hours after the big public reveal by Frontier and by most of their new destination airports (all at 11am Mountain this morning) the new routes have been picked up by mainstream local and national media across the U.S. ........
But, here in Calgary, not a single peep out of the folks at YYC yet.

You'd think that any new route would be a big PR opportunity for an airport authority, and that they'd want to be out at the front of the wave of info to get their message across effectively.
.....
Perhaps Frontier forgot to let YYC know they were coming?

Its becoming clear that Frontier did not previously signal to YYC their intentions. Perhaps Frontier did not feel there was a contact at the CAA they could trust?

The following is pure speculation on my part as too why Frontier would not give the CAA the heads up.

Frontier Airlines is owned by Indigo Partners out of PHX. Indigo Partners is considered to be the financial and operational backers of Enerjet's ULCCC, tentatively dubbed FlyToo.

I have previously posted the WS ULCC is more of a response to Enerjet/FlyToo and less about Flair/Newleaf or CanadaJetlines. Moving on this train of thought, the Frontier announcement could be the FlyToo partners seeing the interest in the ULCC concept in Canada/Calgary. The interest would be anywhere from WS competitive response to Calgary market reaction to the ULCC concept.

Definitely more to this story than just a simple route announcement for CAA.

[Canadian74]

Can't find any details...
A/c? Frequency? Seasonal?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

Can't find any details...
A/c? Frequency? Seasonal?

Sumer 2018 schedule, exact date tbd.

Expect 1 per day.

Mainline A320 service.

I would expect summer seasonal.

Overall 50% chance we see launch cone about in 2018.

[PPAR]

I must be one of the few that flew Frontier out of YYC in about 2007. Recall it being decent service. Transfer in DEN on my way to Minnesota.
That Frontier went bankrupt of course, so not sure what the "new" version is like.

[MalcolmTucker]

[del]

[MalcolmTucker]

[del]

[Cage]

Web link: http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1252

CALGARY, July 24, 2017 /CNW/ - WestJet today announced new non-stop weekly service between Calgary and Belize, effective November 3, 2017. The service is part of the airline's seasonal schedule for the winter of 2017-18 which includes more flights from Calgary to Vancouver, Toronto, Fort McMurray, Kelowna, Brandon, Grande Prairie, Kitchener, Los Angeles, Houston, Phoenix, Palm Springs, Cancun and Cabo San Lucas.

WestJet announces Calgary service to Belize (CNW Group/WestJet)

"WestJet will increase service from Calgary by 52 weekly flights this winter," said Brian Znotins, WestJet Vice-President, Network Planning, Alliances and Corporate Development. "As the carrier with more flights from Calgary International Airport than any other, we have designed our Calgary flight schedules to deliver 55 per cent more connecting itineraries which will help to launch new flights in future seasons and further expand our presence in YYC – a key driver in economic and employment growth in the city."

Details of WestJet's new non-stop service between Calgary and Belize:

Route
Frequency
Departing
Arriving
Effective
Calgary – Belize
Weekly
9:15 a.m.
2:51 p.m.
Nov. 3, 2017
Belize – Calgary
Weekly
3:45 p.m.
10:06 p.m.
Nov. 3, 2017
One-way fares are available starting from:

Departing
Arriving
Air transportation charges (ATC)
Taxes,
fees and
charges
Total one-way
price from
Base fare from
Other ATC
Calgary
Belize
$214
$7.50
$57.41
$278.91 CAD*
*Book by July 31, 2017 (11:59 p.m. MT). Some restrictions apply. For full details please visit westjet.com/winterschedule.


WestJet will also increase service on the following routes from Calgary:

Calgary-Vancouver, from 90 to 97 times weekly (15 times each business day), more than any other carrier.
Calgary-Toronto, from 58 to 68 times weekly, (10 times each business day), more than any other carrier.
Calgary-Fort McMurray, from four to five times each business day.
Calgary-Kelowna, from six to seven times each business day, more than any other carrier.
Calgary-Brandon, from 10 to 12 times weekly.
Calgary-Grande Prairie, 19 to 26 times weekly.
Calgary-Kitchener, from five to seven times weekly.
Calgary-Los Angeles, from 11 to 14 times weekly.
Calgary-Phoenix, from 19 to 20 times weekly.
Calgary-Palm Springs, from 18 to 20 times weekly.
Calgary-Cancun, from 14 to 16 times weekly.
Calgary-Cabo San Lucas, from seven to eight times weekly.
"The considerable increase in frequencies out of YYC, combined with the introduction of WestJet's Calgary to Belize route is exciting news for Albertans," said Bob Sartor, President and CEO for The Calgary Airport Authority. "Enhancing the WestJet network out of their home base is a strategic investment to advance one of their largest hubs, and provide YYC passengers with more options to connect out of Calgary."

WestJet also announced the addition of dozens of new flights across Canada. The additional flights deliver optimized service for both the business and leisure traveller and give Canadians greater connectivity into and out of WestJet hubs in Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto, providing more flight frequency between key routes, more convenient schedules and greater access from regional airports to Canada, the U.S., Mexico, Caribbean and the U.K.

"Bolstering our hub cities – the core of the WestJet network – is typical of the kind of difference we want to make for Canadian travellers," said Brian Znotins. "The addition of more than 125 flights into and out of Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto creates one-stop connections, faster travel times and better scheduling to address the demand Canadians have for travel that is convenient, stress-free and low cost."

Highlights of WestJet's 2017-18 winter schedule include:

New non-stop weekly service from Edmonton and Vancouver to Huatulco.
Additional flights from Vancouver to a number of domestic and international destinations including Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Fort St. John, Calgary, Edmonton and Fort McMurray.
Extension of existing summer service increases through the winter, including three daily flights between Toronto and Moncton, six daily flights between Edmonton and Kelowna, six weekly flights between Edmonton and Ottawa, and 12 weekly flights between Calgary and Houston.
Service from both Regina and Abbotsford to Puerto Vallarta will increase by one weekly flight for a total of twice weekly.
Additional flights from Toronto to a number of sun destinations including Antigua, Cancun, Fort Lauderdale, Liberia, Orlando, Nassau, Puerto Plata, Punta Cana and Montego Bay.
Additional flights from Toronto to a number of Canadian destinations including Winnipeg and Kelowna.
An increase of 10 new weekly flights between Toronto and Ottawa for a total of 13 times daily.
An increase of nine weekly flights between Toronto and Montreal for a total of 14 times daily.
An increase of eight weekly flights between Toronto and Vancouver for a total of eight times daily.

[Cage]

Quick comment on WS W18 schedule, before I head to a meeting.

I doubt WS can fly all these new flights and also put 10 738s into the ULCC. Hidden in this announcement must be a deferral on the ULCC to summer time.

Finally, what happened to AZA?

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by Cage

Quick comment on WS W18 schedule, before I head to a meeting.

I doubt WS can fly all these new flights and also put 10 738s into the ULCC. Hidden in this announcement must be a deferral on the ULCC to summer time.

Finally, what happened to AZA?

AZA is returning 2x week this winter, operating Thursday and Sundays.

[Canadian74]

These new start up ULCCs seem to be avoiding Calgary. I guess one of the main reasons is the Westjet hub at YYC.

But I think some market is probably there, for ULCC flights to secondary Vancouver, Toronto area airports

Can Springbank hypothetically handle 737s if a ULCC wants to avoid YYC? I think they would need to lengthen the runway?

[Bad Grizzly]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

These new start up ULCCs seem to be avoiding Calgary. I guess one of the main reasons is the Westjet hub at YYC.

But I think some market is probably there, for ULCC flights to secondary Vancouver, Toronto area airports

Can Springbank hypothetically handle 737s if a ULCC wants to avoid YYC? I think they would need to lengthen the runway?

Runway 29 at YYC is about 40% longer than the longest at Springbank, but that's not to say that Springbank couldn't be extended.

[hoboman27]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

These new start up ULCCs seem to be avoiding Calgary. I guess one of the main reasons is the Westjet hub at YYC.

But I think some market is probably there, for ULCC flights to secondary Vancouver, Toronto area airports

Can Springbank hypothetically handle 737s if a ULCC wants to avoid YYC? I think they would need to lengthen the runway?

The Calgary Airport actually operates Springbank, no way they'd let that happen, especially with the shiny new terminal to fill.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

These new start up ULCCs seem to be avoiding Calgary. I guess one of the main reasons is the Westjet hub at YYC.

But I think some market is probably there, for ULCC flights to secondary Vancouver, Toronto area airports

Can Springbank hypothetically handle 737s if a ULCC wants to avoid YYC? I think they would need to lengthen the runway?

17/35 at YBW is 5,000 feet long, not long enough. There's some terrain to the north, not sure how much expansion could be done in that direction. Southward, if they could interrupt a road and buy some property, they could get a bit more than 2,000 if the same distance between YYC's 35L and McKnight (about 400m) is still acceptable.

But... uh... why? Well, sure, maybe it'll be slightly cheaper than YYC. But they're both managed by the Calgary Airport Authority, I don't think they want YBW to go that way. Any money for improvements to YBW to allow this would have have to come from somewhere.

Unlike YHM and YXX, YBW can't claim much of a "local" territory either, there's no surrounding population that isn't (roughly) equally close to YYC (other than Cochrane).

[Cage]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

AZA is returning 2x week this winter, operating Thursday and Sundays.

Thanks for the information.

Originally Posted by Canadian74

These new start up ULCCs seem to be avoiding Calgary. I guess one of the main reasons is the Westjet hub at YYC.
.....
Can Springbank hypothetically handle 737s if a ULCC wants to avoid YYC? I think they would need to lengthen the runway?

YBW has a number of challenges for ULCC and commercial aircraft operators.
- MTOW for the runways is limited to 40,000lbs. Comparative 73G is 140,000 lbs range.
- There are no preboard security screening location or other terminal amenities at YBW.
- CATSA is unlikely to approve additional preboard security screening considering YYC is so close.
- YBW is operated by CAA, why would the CAA build additional facilities at YBW when capacity exists at YYC?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

These new start up ULCCs seem to be avoiding Calgary. I guess one of the main reasons is the Westjet hub at YYC.

But I think some market is probably there, for ULCC flights to secondary Vancouver, Toronto area airports...

The ULCC are largely avoiding YYC because there is strong presence in both AC and WS, which is unique to Canada and the world (most hub markets have only one major hub carrier) for cities the size of YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC.

The second major reason is that the hometown ULCC for YYC is Enerjet/FlyToo. Enerjet is just as actively in the investment market searching for startup capital, but is not making grandiose statements that attract media attention.

Third major reason: private Equity really does not like their ULCC's being number 3 in the marketplace or specific routes. They much more prefer being #2 player. In YYC, almost all routes have the 1 and 2 spots filled or have been filled by AC and WS in the recent past (YYC-YHM and YYC-YXX come to mind, AC has started both routes).

Fourth major reason, Canada and Calgary in particular is not a good location for the ULCC concept.
- the ULCC concept needs to have unique routes where a little bit of inconvenience on one or both ends of the route can persuade some pax to fly from an alternate airport. WS experience at both YHM and YXX proves that very few people are willing to put up with a little inconvenience for a little discount. In Canada, people want a little bit of inconvenience for a large discount.
- Canada is a unique region where the top four markets are dominated by single commercial airport and comprise 50% of the overall market. Further, if you add up YEG, YOW, YHM and YWG (the 5th to 8th largest markets) the number of pax does not equal YYC.
- ULCC airlines need a supply limiting factor in order to be successful. In Europe and the USA, slot controls and other airport constraints provide the supply limiting factors.

In Canada, the is a market for ULCC to operate YYZ to YUL/YYC/YVR double daily plus single day seasonal service on YYZ to YEG/YWG/YHM. However no Venture Capital group will fund the startup because its too far from the tried and proven ULCC concept.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Cage

I doubt WS can fly all these new flights and also put 10 738s into the ULCC. Hidden in this announcement must be a deferral on the ULCC to summer time.

WS has reduced service on a lot of routes to make this announcement.
Those planes had to come from somewhere.

YUL-FLL
MCO-YUL/YVR/YHZ/YOW/YWG
YOW-RSW/TPA
LAS-YWG

All of these routes get pretty much cut in half in terms of frequency.