Edmonton Construction 13 (November 2015)

[Coldrsx]

Good location, LRT, yup.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

And maybe with that type of density, Bonnie Doon Mall could be a more successful shopping centre although maybe that ship has sailed now.

[Coldrsx]

^more news on their redevelopment plans soon.

[Black Star]

[QUOTE=Hallsy's Toupee;7870993]And maybe with that type of density, Bonnie Doon Mall could be a more successful shopping centre although maybe that ship has sailed now.[/QUOTE



Ships sail back.

The old girl still has life. Lrt plus this proposal. Yeah it's possible

[Coldrsx]

MUCH more to come on the mall redevelopment.

[Abii]

Originally Posted by GreenSPACE

Is there even a market for that many towers? Just thinking out loud.

Well, drive through some of those developments in Elerslie and you'll see hundreds and hundreds of townhouses and detached homes. A lot of people buy those because they want something new and modern, but don't have the capital to get something in the middle of the city. A condo gives people that opportunity (assuming you can live with the smaller floor space). And when I say condo, I'm talking about concrete modern towers, not commie blocks or wood construction low-rises.

Even if this theory is completely nonsense, look at it this way: there are hundreds and hundreds of properties being built all over the south. The exact number must be well over a thousand. The area is more sparsely populated than the center of the city. Meanwhile, if you put all the towers being built right now together, the number of units is probably 1500-2000. If the South can support those numbers, the centre of the city can surely as well. Plus, I'm sure these new developments will pull in a ton of people that would otherwise go South. Why buy a wood box in the middle of nowhere when you can own a concrete unit in a skyscraper in the middle of Downtown (assuming you don't care about a smaller floor-plan due to family etc...)?

[240glt]

Most people prefer the wood box


Reverse the question: why would someone want to live in a concrete shoebox with shared walls in the centre of the city when they could have lots of space for kids and toys and not have to deal with all the noise and riff raff that you do in the city centre ?

There's a huge amount of dystopia on this forum with regards to why people choose to live where they live. We're all free to assume that everyone would want to live closse to downtown given the chance but that's pure conjecture. I think you'd find that the vast majority are quite content with where they have decided to live

Having said that I'd look at one to add to the rental pool.. it is a decent location and close by to our house

[GreenSPACE]

My hope is there is a market. One tower with 200 units is only 1.5-2% of the entire yearly market on an average year in the Edmonton region. If one building was completed every 1.5 years, designed properly, maybe we could see a bit of a shift towards this kind of product and location.

[s4.audios]

I'm not against the development but in regards to demand, I really hope it doesn't take away from the development of Downtown/Oliver. If it means it will put something closer to the core on the backburner, then I'd rather it not go through.

[Abii]

Originally Posted by 240glt

Most people prefer the wood box


Reverse the question: why would someone want to live in a concrete shoebox with shared walls in the centre of the city when they could have lots of space for kids and toys and not have to deal with all the noise and riff raff that you do in the city centre ?

There's a huge amount of dystopia on this forum with regards to why people choose to live where they live. We're all free to assume that everyone would want to live closse to downtown given the chance but that's pure conjecture. I think you'd find that the vast majority are quite content with where they have decided to live

Look at the central areas of most major cities, why are they so expensive? Why do young people pay 3 times the rent they would have to pay in the suburbs to live in a 30 square meter box in the middle of the city?

If you look at the numbers, the majority of young people (millennials) are living outside city centres. These finding are a lot of the time used as proof that the bias towards downtown living is a myth. The flaw in these conclusions is that they're not accounting for the insane cost of living in the downtown cores of most major cities. I'm renting my Vancouver condo out for 2250 a month. It's a 21 year old condo (560 square feet) and it is in no way "high end" (it does have nice views though). I've seen 1 bedroom units go for over 3000 a month. And this is just Vancouver. Go to mega cities like NYC and look at the prices people are willing to pay and the conditions that some are willing to put up with. Because of the high cost of living the majority of young people still live outside downtown cores.

You can get a condo in Burnaby for half the cost of a Vancouver proper condo. A sky-train ride to the city takes 15 minutes! Does that mean people prefer to live in Burnaby, all things being equal? All things being equal, downtown would win 99 times out of 100. The market forces are proof.

In Alberta, the population has traditionally been rural. On top of that, in a place like Edmonton, where there are a ton of blue collar jobs on the outskirts of the city, it might make more sense to own on the edges of the city. Downtown Edmonton also never really offered anything in the past. The very things that pull in people to city centres in other major cities in North America are now starting to be offered in Edmonton. Prices are also very affordable. IMO this combination will change the dynamics in the city in the decades to come. People want to live in areas where they can interact with other people, have things to do, sights to see, have access to public transportation and modern amenities etc... I grew up in the suburbs. I don't want that experience on my worst enemies. Unless my parents could drive me somewhere or I was able to steal my mom's car keys (I was driving before I even got my license ), I would just sit at home. Taking the bus from the boonies would take ages. Meanwhile I knew people that grew up in Vancouver proper and they lived minutes from parks, gyms, shops, sky-train, museums, libraries, restaurants, schools... The world was at heir footsteps. Everything was a short walk or bike ride away. Edmonton isn't there yet, but build it and they will invade. I'm sure people that prefer the burbs won't mind the Downtown invasion.

[240glt]

^ that's an interesting theory but anecdotal at best. Edmonton is not in any way, shape or form even remotely similar to Vancouver, and I'll wager there's a ton of folks in Vancouver who dearly wish they could have the same living arrangement as most Edmontonians do. I know of many personally who would trade their cramped apartment for a house with a yard in a heartbeat. Much ado is made about millenials but the older ones are already forgoing th "urban experience" in favour of more room, a larger home and the invariable downsides that come with that

Not to say there isn't a market for apartments, of course there is, but that big shift or "invasion" that some talk about may very well be a combination of idealism and hope, not practical reality.

[Abii]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^ that's an interesting theory but anecdotal at best. Edmonton is not in any way, shape or form even remotely similar to Vancouver, and I'll wager there's a ton of folks in Vancouver who dearly wish they could have the same living arrangement as most Edmontonians do. I know of many personally who would trade their cramped apartment for a house with a yard in a heartbeat

But they have that opportunity. That's the thing. Nobody is forcing them to pay 3 times for 5 times less space. They are doing it even though they have the option to own a house.

I can give you a ton of listings from the Fraser Valley and beyond for houses that are 400k-600k. The drive from Surrey to the city is an hour. Most people don't want to do this drive. On top of that, why live in Surrey when you can live in Vancouver? And that's precisely my point.

Edmonton is not similar to Vancouver. But it can be. What is Vancouver? Remove the mountains, the ocean and scenery and it's just another super dense city like Seattle, NYC, Toronto etc... The vast majority of people that experience that life can't handle the boonies. Downtown Edm. will slowly become more dense. As density increases, taxes start increasing. When you have a large pool of cash to serve a small geographical area, you start seeing parks, modern amenities, state of the art transportation systems etc... Meanwhile the suburbs stay where they are. Decade after decade.

If people wanted to live in the suburbs, prices in the core wouldn't increase. And when they did increase, the people that would kill for more space would just pack their bags and move to the burbs. But again, the vast majority of people that live in the core and complain don't do that. Why? Your friends say they want more space, but more so than space they want the city experience and all that comes with it. They're welcome to buy in the Fraser Valley and forego city life. In terms of jobs, the Fraser Valley is doing fantastic. Their growth is actually surpassing Vancouver in many aspects.

[Rocket252]

I think if anyone is thinking of moving out of Vancouver to the larger home unfortunately they would probably be moving to Calgary instead of Edmonton. If someone has some stats I would like to see it

[itom 987]

If you look at cities all over the world you will find that the vast majority of them have vibrant downtowns. Edmonton didn't have a vibrant downtown, which put it in the minority. Humans are social beings, it is our nature to congregate amongst each other. A city with a vibrant downtown is a healthy city. Trying to change human's natural social habits is like trying to teach a pig to fly. It won't work and you will piss off the pig.

[Urban recluse]

Technology is encouraging people to be introverts, as you can do everything from home, and not go out.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Abii

But they have that opportunity. That's the thing. Nobody is forcing them to pay 3 times for 5 times less space. They are doing it even though they have the option to own a house.

I can give you a ton of listings from the Fraser Valley and beyond for houses that are 400k-600k. The drive from Surrey to the city is an hour. Most people don't want to do this drive. On top of that, why live in Surrey when you can live in Vancouver? And that's precisely my point.

I know it sounds crazy but there are many people who like living in Surrey. They're not there because they have to be, they are there because they want to be.

Tons of folks in Vancouver accept the 1.5 hour commute as a necessary trade-off. I guarantee you that if they could have the same house with the same yard in a nice neighbourhood they could afford ten minutes from downtown they'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Here in Edmonton there are lots of detached houses, even suburban style homes like where we live that are literally ten minutes from downtown, and relatively affordable. For someone who'd prefer a house in central Edmonton there are a plethora of options

I'd love to live back in Vancouver but there are trade-offs I am not willing to make. I am not willing to commute and I am not willing to give up my garden and my garage and my car and my un-connected walls that allow me to crank the Supertramp and Earth Wind & Fire on the old block rocker stereo all that other stuff you get with a house.

Edmonton is not similar to Vancouver. But it can be. What is Vancouver? Remove the mountains, the ocean and scenery and it's just another super dense city like Seattle, NYC, Toronto etc... The vast majority of people that experience that life can't handle the boonies. Downtown Edm. will slowly become more dense. As density increases, taxes start increasing. When you have a large pool of cash to serve a small geographical area, you start seeing parks, modern amenities, state of the art transportation systems etc... Meanwhile the suburbs stay where they are. Decade after decade.

Your right, downtown and surround area here will become more dense over time. But you can't remove the mountains and ocean and scenery of Vancouver because that IS Vancouver. And it's what people pay the premium for, and are willing to make compromises like living in an apartment for.

Suburbs don't change that fast but they do change. Look at my circa 1960's mature suburb vs. Summerside. It's a LOT different. And people love living in Summerside. So there you go.

If people wanted to live in the suburbs, prices in the core wouldn't increase. And when they did increase, the people that would kill for more space would just pack their bags and move to the burbs. But again, the vast majority of people that live in the core and complain don't do that. Why? Your friends say they want more space, but more so than space they want the city experience and all that comes with it. They're welcome to buy in the Fraser Valley and forego city life. In terms of jobs, the Fraser Valley is doing fantastic. Their growth is actually surpassing Vancouver in many aspects.

That's the point you are missing. People actually do want to live in the suburbs. People want to live in the downtown too, but to assume that people are in the suburbs simply because they can't afford downtown (false in Edmonton, downtown is not expensive) is I think is a false argument.

[Coldrsx]

twitter.com/ianoyeg

[MalcolmTucker]

[del]

[s13]

^ this. Edmonton has their plate fill already with brown field developments like blatchford. Nice to see private companies taking on ambitious, large resi redevelopments.

[Urban recluse]

Fabulous shot, showing a great mixture of architecture.


https://twitter.com/IanOyeg