Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[WarrenC12]

Is the GNW station location flexible at this point? The map seems to put it at about the Centre for Digital Media, maybe Earl Finning Way?

I was hoping it would be closer to 1st and Thornton, a little more accessible for the population in the area (also I'm selfish).

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Is the GNW station location flexible at this point? The map seems to put it at about the Centre for Digital Media, maybe Earl Finning Way?

I was hoping it would be closer to 1st and Thornton, a little more accessible for the population in the area (also I'm selfish).

All the plans I've seen indicate the station will be underground at the intersection of Great Northern Way and Thornton St. The western half of the campus lands have a hold on all development until after the SkyTrain extension is built.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by dpogue

All the plans I've seen indicate the station will be underground at the intersection of Great Northern Way and Thornton St. The western half of the campus lands have a hold on all development until after the SkyTrain extension is built.

That makes sense, thanks.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I find this kind of thing to be mostly self serving BS about engaging people when they should have enough common sense to build a station that doesn't "suck". I didn't read the post-it notes so maybe there are some great ideas.

Sometimes it actually is constructive. "Current manholes are slippery when wet." "Buses get stuck in snow climbing Arbutus Ridge, plan accordingly." "Add designated standing areas on the floors to improve in/out commuter flow on the platform."

Oh, and the Engineering reps said that all of Broadway's utilities were put on West 10th to make way for the (former) streetcar. Sorry logan, jlousa, etc, looks like cut 'n cover on 10th isn't an option.

[jlousa]

Interesting news about them moving the utilities I don't recall the work taking place nor does Vanmaps seem to reflect that but I'm going to assume the engineers know better. I'm content that not going along 10th is being done for a logical reason and not a political one then.

[AMTDGT]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

......."

Oh, and the Engineering reps said that all of Broadway's utilities were put on West 10th to make way for the (former) streetcar. Sorry logan, jlousa, etc, looks like cut 'n cover on 10th isn't an option.

Yes the telephone (and cable vision???) cables are under 10th (all the way from Main to UBC I believe) and have been there since before world war 2. Not sure if its because of the street cars or simply because the telco offices are all on 10th and it is a straight line for them. There are other locations in the city that have old telephone cable routes that were origonally under street car routes.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

Yes the telephone (and cable vision???) cables are under 10th (all the way from Main to UBC I believe) and have been there since before world war 2. Not sure if its because of the street cars or simply because the telco offices are all on 10th and it is a straight line for them. There are other locations in the city that have old telephone cable routes that were originally under street car routes.

If you cut into a water pipe... you might inconvenience a few people as they can't get drinking water until the pipe's fixed.

If you cut into a cable, phones, and Fiber... civilization as we know it would grind to a halt as the internet would no longer be easily accessed.

No water... minor inconvenience.
No internet... civilization ending catastrophe.

[jsbertram]

when will horgan ndp announce the full extension to ubc?

after the lng royalty cheques start rolling in ?

[madog222]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

after the lng royalty cheques start rolling in ?

Better question is when that will be.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

Yes the telephone (and cable vision???) cables are under 10th (all the way from Main to UBC I believe) and have been there since before world war 2.

I'm not disputing your assertion that utilities are buried under 10th Ave. But perhaps both telephone & cable vision "since before WW2" may be incorrect.

Into the early 1970's, then old BC Tel utility poles still traversed many major Van City proper thoroughfares or adjacent/parallel streets/back alleys akin to the following (give or take a few crossbars):



Hell, into the 1970's many Van City proper homes still had "party lines" - an ancient form of landline. IIRC, then BC Tel did not bury their lines until the 1970's at the earliest.

As for cable-vision, that didn't really come along until the 1960's. The first Vancouver TV station opened up circa 1953 - CBC. A television, during the 1950's, was still considered a luxury for many. TV's back then either had "rabbit ears" on top of same or a roof-mounted antenna.

By, September, 1964, roughly 25% of Van City proper had cable vision coverage with continued expansion in progress:



Cable-vision, back then, included "All 7 TV channels".

In any event, looks like Broadway will be where the boring machine will eventually be set up - as opposed to 10th Ave as a result of utility location.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

I'm not disputing your assertion that utilities are buried under 10th Ave. But perhaps both telephone & cable vision "since before WW2" may be incorrect.

Into the early 1970's, then old BC Tel utility poles still traversed many major Van City proper thoroughfares or adjacent/parallel streets/back alleys akin to the following (give or take a few crossbars):

<snip>

Hell, into the 1970's many Van City proper homes still had "party lines" - an ancient form of landline. IIRC, then BC Tel did not bury their lines until the 1970's at the earliest.

As for cable-vision, that didn't really come along until the 1960's. The first Vancouver TV station opened up circa 1953 - CBC. A television, during the 1950's, was still considered a luxury for many. TV's back then either had "rabbit ears" on top of same or a roof-mounted antenna.

By, September, 1964, roughly 25% of Van City proper had cable vision coverage with continued expansion in progress:

<snip>

Cable-vision, back then, included "All 7 TV channels".

In any event, looks like Broadway will be where the boring machine will eventually be set up - as opposed to 10th Ave as a result of utility location.

the tbm should be started at the portal to the tunnel. just like olympic station started out as the tbm launch box and portals, so might the gnw campus station be a place to build the tbm launch box and start the tunnels south towards Broadway before turning westwards under Broadway (full bore to UBC!). the dirt can be dumped into traincars using a track on the nearby bnsf yard north of the gnw campus.

when the tunnels are completed and tbms removed, the launch box can be rebuilt as the gnw station that makes the transition from elevated tracks to tunnel

[Hooknose]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

the tbm should be started at the portal to the tunnel. just like olympic station started out as the tbm launch box and portals, so might the gnw campus station be a place to build the tbm launch box and start the tunnels south towards Broadway before turning westwards under Broadway (full bore to UBC!). the dirt can be dumped into traincars using a track on the nearby bnsf yard north of the gnw campus.

when the tunnels are completed and tbms removed, the launch box can be rebuilt as the gnw station that makes the transition from elevated tracks to tunnel

I have a question about the western terminus of the UBC line. The plan was for it to continue underground one more station to MacDonald.

If the line now stops at Arbutus (TBM style) and the TBM is dismantled, then when it goes to UBC someone has to put the TBM back in the ground, tunnel about 500 yards, then disassemble the machine and move it to 10th and Alma???


Sounds like a plan that only a government could love. Push all manner of costs to the future just to justify the actions of the present.

There has to be a better way.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Hooknose

I have a question about the western terminus of the UBC line. The plan was for it to continue underground one more station to MacDonald.

If the line now stops at Arbutus (TBM style) and the TBM is dismantled, then when it goes to UBC someone has to put the TBM back in the ground, tunnel about 500 yards, then disassemble the machine and move it to 10th and Alma???


Sounds like a plan that only a government could love. Push all manner of costs to the future just to justify the actions of the present.

There has to be a better way.

Basically. It would be great if it went all the way to UBC, looped around, and went south to the Musqueam lands and it's future densification, Kerrisdale, Marpole, connected to the Canada line again at 41st or 49th and from there who knows, up to Joyce station?

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Basically. It would be great if it went all the way to UBC, looped around, and went south to the Musqueam lands and it's future densification, Kerrisdale, Marpole, connected to the Canada line again at 41st or 49th and from there who knows, up to Joyce station?

Yeah I said that in a post on a different thread. But my idea was to have a couple of stations along Wesbrook Mall.

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

All those major bus routes, even the future b-lines, can be seen as placeholders for future rapid transit lines. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I can see the Broadway Subway in maybe 2 phases, and as a loop, with the completed Millennium line going from either Lafarge-Lake Douglas or even the future Port Coquitlam terminus (due to the roughed in spur preparation near Coquitlam Central station), all the way along the existing Millennium line, along Broadway, to UBC station, with a few stations along Wesbrook Mall, then down along 41st Avenue, continuing all the way to Joyce-Collingwood station. This could happen in the future, maybe in 3, or even 2, decades.

Edit:

Maybe after going all the way back to Joyce-Collingwood, the M and the E line can be intertwined again, terminating at the end of the Expo in SoF, possibly in Langley.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Yeah I said that in a post on a different thread. But my idea was to have a couple of stations along Wesbrook Mall.



Edit:

Maybe after going all the way back to Joyce-Collingwood, the M and the E line can be intertwined again, terminating at the end of the Expo in SoF, possibly in Langley.

A) I'd make the 41st subway a new line; after a certain length, two long lines make more sense than one superlong one.

B) Intertwining - combined with frequent track switches - increases the chance of a breakdown, as demonstrated by the fustercluck back in 2014. That's why TransLink separated the M and E in the first place, so that only one line gets stalled instead of two or more.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

A) I'd make the 41st subway a new line; after a certain length, two long lines make more sense than one superlong one.

B) Intertwining - combined with frequent track switches - increases the chance of a breakdown, as demonstrated by the fustercluck back in 2014. That's why TransLink separated the M and E in the first place, so that only one line gets stalled instead of two or more.

I've been thinking about 41st Avenue Rapid Transit, and I'm coming around to the thought that it's actually a bad idea.

It's certainly logical to look at the busiest bus routes for rapid transit upgrade, but in the case of the East-West cross town routes, a lot of their heavy ridership and heavy gains in the last 7 years comes from the fact that they specifically connect *to* the Canada Line and that making a Canada Line connection is faster for many trips than would be connecting to the nearest North-South bus. That is to say, that trips are still over-all north-south, it's just that one north-south route is just a lot better than the others, and traffic is diverted east/west in order to reach it.

The problem with rapid-transit on 41st Avenue would be that it could overload the Canada Line, in a similar manner as the East-West Bloor-Danforth Line does in Toronto to the North-South Young-University Line, necessitating the construction of a relief line. Broadway does not so much have this effect due to the independent travel demand for Broadway which would likely be regarded as part of Downtown were it not for False Creek creating a physical barrier

I would wish to consider whether improvements to the North-South bus routes to increase average speeds and reliability might be more effective overallk

[officedweller]

That's really just a timing issue.
i.e. a 41st Ave. line would have to be built after the Arbutus Line provides a second north-south route.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

this isn't a fantasy thread with the Millennium-Line looping around the city people. it isn't going anywhere but to UBC in the next 30 years.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Hooknose

I have a question about the western terminus of the UBC line. The plan was for it to continue underground one more station to MacDonald.

If the line now stops at Arbutus (TBM style) and the TBM is dismantled, then when it goes to UBC someone has to put the TBM back in the ground, tunnel about 500 yards, then disassemble the machine and move it to 10th and Alma???


Sounds like a plan that only a government could love. Push all manner of costs to the future just to justify the actions of the present.

There has to be a better way.

i dont see why a line continuing west on broadway from arbutus cant do the zig/zag at alma (running under the gas station and strip mall sites) to get from broadway to 10th.

there may be a 'diagonal station' built at alma replacing the 7/11 mall and gas station where trains need to slow down anyhow to stop at the alma station.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by madog222

Better question is when that will be.

with petronas killing their lng project, the royalty cheques wont be arriving any time soon, so likely no skytrain extension to ubc either

maybe not in our lifetimes?